A Sea Of Red

Was that blwall42 or Haize I saw working this game?

[youtube][/youtube]

Frankly a couple of them aren't that bad. But, dude ...

That was pathetic. The fourth one with the horse collar tackle would have been called in a football game. Ridiculous.

Pretty bad. Number 34 had no business being on the floor after basically clotheslining that kid on foul #5.

Yeah, saw this last week. That kid would not have been around to make those last few fouls if I was on that game. I'd be filling out the tedious post-game paperwork involving ejections.

Not all of those warrant ejections....some were intentional, not flagrant. The second foul wasn't as egregious as they try to make it out to be. I don't think I would have called intentional on that one, but it would warrant a discussion between me & #42. But none of the others were common fouls.

a few of those are inexcusable. some of them are just hard fouls. meh.

when reffing these types of games, a good ref will take care of this situation easily without even having to talk to the offending team. once i would see that a kid is the "enforcer" of the team, isn't really all that good at basketball but is in there to foul, he'll get fouled out pretty quick. any contact and the whistle blows. i've had coaches scream at me, but sorry, we all know why he's in there idiot. this is what you wanted isn't it? the coach will either let him foul out or pull him so they aren't getting into the bonus quicker. being that you usually coach alot of the same teams in jr high and hs basketball, word quickly spreads and they either stop or something happens.

the kids on the other team amazingly took it in stride. obviously they were ready for it, and so was the crowd. if i got kids like these on the other team, i'm putting my biggest most annoying guy on them to get them to get t'd up. fight fire with fire until the other kid does something to get himself ejected. thats why i don't coach kid sports. haha.

The problem with this is that 34 really has no skill and less class. The person I would like to talk to is his dead beat father/coach who say nothing and let that kid continue to be a waste.

and he is just smiling about almost taking a guy out with the clothesline. He looks similar to a couple kids I played freshmen year of high school. 0 talent so they have to make up for it with dirty play. I got mad at one similar player and did not have the restraint that these kids had and decided an elbow to the gut was the right thing. Of course I got caught and my coach took me out so yeah props to these kids for not giving in to the cheap shots...

Yes I just went down memory lane to freshmen basketball, haha

You can't penalize a kid for being more athletic then someone else. You also can't penalize a kid for be less athletic then someone else.
I think BL and I would probably agree on most of these. I think it's the second to last one where the kid drives and he lands on his head. That's the only one I would have tossed the kid. I would have gone intentional on the loose ball when he pushed the kid in the back. I have a common foul on the last play, at least I think it's the last play, where he pushes the kid OB on the rebound.
But I you can rest assured that I would have had an early discussion and short rope with this player. It didn't appear the officials in the video had the same felt the same.

This is disgusting and I'm not referring to the player or the team committing the action. The refs screwed this one. As a ref, your first and foremost duty is to make sure the game is played safe. Maybe you could argue this changes in professional or maybe collegiate sports. However, at the highschool level, you're dealing with minors. The fact that the refs didn't T this kid on the second foul is sickening. I'm all for letting teams have enforcers and play a little dirty, as this is how I played soccer in high school. But when it comes to flat out injuring a player, you're crossing the line. I generally wouldn't give much attention to a youtube video but I couldn't help but comment on this. Being strategic in how physical you play/coach is one thing, but what I saw in this video was just gross.

cjsweat wrote:This is disgusting and I'm not referring to the player or the team committing the action. The refs screwed this one. As a ref, your first and foremost duty is to make sure the game is played safe. Maybe you could argue this changes in professional or maybe collegiate sports. However, at the highschool level, you're dealing with minors. The fact that the refs didn't T this kid on the second foul is sickening. I'm all for letting teams have enforcers and play a little dirty, as this is how I played soccer in high school. But when it comes to flat out injuring a player, you're crossing the line. I generally wouldn't give much attention to a youtube video but I couldn't help but comment on this. Being strategic in how physical you play/coach is one thing, but what I saw in this video was just gross.

You obviously aren't an official.

Purple Haize wrote:

cjsweat wrote:This is disgusting and I'm not referring to the player or the team committing the action. The refs screwed this one. As a ref, your first and foremost duty is to make sure the game is played safe. Maybe you could argue this changes in professional or maybe collegiate sports. However, at the highschool level, you're dealing with minors. The fact that the refs didn't T this kid on the second foul is sickening. I'm all for letting teams have enforcers and play a little dirty, as this is how I played soccer in high school. But when it comes to flat out injuring a player, you're crossing the line. I generally wouldn't give much attention to a youtube video but I couldn't help but comment on this. Being strategic in how physical you play/coach is one thing, but what I saw in this video was just gross.

You obviously aren't an official.

he's a soccer flopper dude, of course those are horrible awful offenses.

Purple Haize wrote: You obviously aren't an official.

Nope. I never was. However, I believe that during a game the safety of the athletes should be the first concern of any ref, especially if the athletes are minors.

RubberMallet wrote:

he's a soccer flopper dude, of course those are horrible awful offenses.[/quote]


That was never my thing. I was always the most physical player on the field. Also, if you're attempting to bang on soccer, high-school soccer isn't what you watch on T.V. or see in college. So, unless you've played or had a kid that played, I doubt you know what you're talking about.

it isn't? enlighten me?

Actually safety concerns are primarily the responsibility of game management.

I've stated what I would have done in those situations. Just because someone gets hurt does not mean there was a foul egregious enough to warrant an ejection, or that there as even a foul. In the video, these plays were all fouls. And I believe they were all called fouls. They were rightly not called 'Technical Fouls'. Some needed to be upgraded some were fine the way they were called.

RubberMallet wrote:it isn't? enlighten me?

In collegiate soccer, most schools play some variation of a 4-4-2 and due to the talent level, it is more ball control based. In high-school, most coaches cater to their team's strength and weaknesses. This results is many teams playing a more physical or more finesse style. If you want to watch a really physical team, watch the Netherlands or Liverpool play. For finesse teams watch Barcelona or Chelsea. Those are probably the best examples.

Purple Haize wrote:Actually safety concerns are primarily the responsibility of game management.

I've stated what I would have done in those situations. Just because someone gets hurt does not mean there was a foul egregious enough to warrant an ejection, or that there as even a foul. In the video, these plays were all fouls. And I believe they were all called fouls. They were rightly not called 'Technical Fouls'. Some needed to be upgraded some were fine the way they were called.

I'd agree that safety in general would be the responsibility of game management. However, I think that responsibility changes when the safety of an individual is threatened by a player.

Also, I agree that just because someone gets hurt doesn't/shouldn't result in a foul, technical or ejection. Yet, if a player's intention is to hurt another player and it's flagrant, that should result in a technical. On a second offense, it should result in an ejection. Baseball does it if you throw it at a player's head twice. I honestly don't see why basketball would be different. Secondly, you are correct that not all of those fouls in the video should have been techs. However, it's obvious that at least three of those were committed with intention to actually harm a member from the other team. As I stated, that is a serious offense and techs should have been distributed because of it.

so are you saying college soccer is less talented or more talented than both professional and high school teams? Either one is funny.

LUconn wrote:so are you saying college soccer is less talented or more talented than both professional and high school teams? Either one is funny.

College soccer is more talented than high school soccer. In professional soccer, almost everyone plays a more finesse style. However, some teams play more physical. I only brought up the professional teams so that you or whoever could see the difference in style of play. Professional is overwhelmingly a more finesse game.

cjsweat wrote:

Purple Haize wrote:Actually safety concerns are primarily the responsibility of game management.

I've stated what I would have done in those situations. Just because someone gets hurt does not mean there was a foul egregious enough to warrant an ejection, or that there as even a foul. In the video, these plays were all fouls. And I believe they were all called fouls. They were rightly not called 'Technical Fouls'. Some needed to be upgraded some were fine the way they were called.

I'd agree that safety in general would be the responsibility of game management. However, I think that responsibility changes when the safety of an individual is threatened by a player.

Also, I agree that just because someone gets hurt doesn't/shouldn't result in a foul, technical or ejection. Yet, if a player's intention is to hurt another player and it's flagrant, that should result in a technical. On a second offense, it should result in an ejection. Baseball does it if you throw it at a player's head twice. I honestly don't see why basketball would be different. Secondly, you are correct that not all of those fouls in the video should have been techs. However, it's obvious that at least three of those were committed with intention to actually harm a member from the other team. As I stated, that is a serious offense and techs should have been distributed because of it.

You probably should understand the differences between flagrant fouls, intentional fouls and technical fouls. They will help you understand what can and cannot be called and what does and does not warrant each.
In your opinion 3 of the fouls were intended to harm. Like I said I see 1 MAYBE 2 flagrants, 1 intentional and the rest common fouls. Preventative officiating would have helped

I really don't understand why you would argue with this unless you really just like arguing for the sake of arguing. It doesn't feel like you actually care either way concerning this issue.

Okay, so if you see those sort of fouls, what would you have done if you were the ref?

Purple Haize wrote:You can't penalize a kid for being more athletic then someone else. You also can't penalize a kid for be less athletic then someone else.
I think BL and I would probably agree on most of these. I think it's the second to last one where the kid drives and he lands on his head. That's the only one I would have tossed the kid. I would have gone intentional on the loose ball when he pushed the kid in the back. I have a common foul on the last play, at least I think it's the last play, where he pushes the kid OB on the rebound.
But you can rest assured that I would have had an early discussion and short rope with this player. It didn't appear the officials in the video had the same felt the same.

This.

the only difference in hs soccer than college and professional outside the obvious skill level is space. fields are smaller generally in hs so its going to be somewhat more physical just because you are all closer together. professional and collegiate may be slightly more finesse i guess you could say but most are even more physical in close encounter play like corner kicks, free kicks, etc.

Purple Haize wrote:

Purple Haize wrote:You can't penalize a kid for being more athletic then someone else. You also can't penalize a kid for be less athletic then someone else.
I think BL and I would probably agree on most of these. I think it's the second to last one where the kid drives and he lands on his head. That's the only one I would have tossed the kid. I would have gone intentional on the loose ball when he pushed the kid in the back. I have a common foul on the last play, at least I think it's the last play, where he pushes the kid OB on the rebound.
But you can rest assured that I would have had an early discussion and short rope with this player. It didn't appear the officials in the video had the same felt the same.

This.

Okay, I would agree with everything except what should be an intentional foul vs technical foul. To me, an intentional foul is where a player fouls a player on purpose to either stop the clock or put the opposite team at the free throw line. A technical foul is where a player commits an action with sole intent on injuring someone else. The one where the kid gets hit in the head, is obvious. I think even if that's not intentional, you call a technical just to send a message to both teams. The other two that you're referring to, I think are pretty obvious that the goal is injury.

Maybe I'm wrong, I really don't know. I'm just saying that I think the ref should have done more in this instance. One offense is one thing, two is another...4 times from one player should be enough for any ref to throw a kid out.

RubberMallet wrote:the only difference in hs soccer than college and professional outside the obvious skill level is space. fields are smaller generally in hs so its going to be somewhat more physical just because you are all closer together. professional and collegiate may be slightly more finesse i guess you could say but most are even more physical in close encounter play like corner kicks, free kicks, etc.

Yeah, I'd agree with you.

cjsweat wrote: Okay, I would agree with everything except what should be an intentional foul vs technical foul. To me, an intentional foul is where a player fouls a player on purpose to either stop the clock or put the opposite team at the free throw line. A technical foul is where a player commits an action with sole intent on injuring someone else. The one where the kid gets hit in the head, is obvious. I think even if that's not intentional, you call a technical just to send a message to both teams. The other two that you're referring to, I think are pretty obvious that the goal is injury.

Maybe I'm wrong, I really don't know. I'm just saying that I think the ref should have done more in this instance. One offense is one thing, two is another...4 times from one player should be enough for any ref to throw a kid out.

It's not my definition of intentional, technical and flagrant foul that you are disagreeing with. The rule book states the definition for each one. I don't see intent to injure on the loose ball but do see a non basketball play and someone not making a play on the ball. The push on the rebound is a foul that occurs a whole lot, and especially on the lower levels, is missed a lot. (saw it in 2 games last nite) In the video the official picked up the foul and off we go to the other end.
I can push you without intent to injure. A hard foul does not an ejection make. I would have been more aghast had the officials in this video NOT blown the whistle on these plays. As it stands the video certainly doesnt make them look good.

The first 2 looked weak to me...but someone could have possibly been ejected for everything else after