A Sea Of Red

So, it's a slow week. I came up with a list of 9 current players who I think are worthy of the HOF. What do you think: correct or does somebody need to be omitted? Did I miss anyone?

Locks:
Chipper Jones
Ichiro
Pudge Rodriquez
Jim Thome
Mariano Rivera
Derek Jeter
Alex Rodriquez
Albert Pujols

Near-Lock:
Scott Rolen

On-Pace:
Roy Halladay
C.C. Sabathia
Mark Teixeira

Just Missed the Cut:
Jorge Posada
Maglio Ordonez
David Wright

Discuss.

Unless something changes dramatically, A-Rod will not be voted in. There is currently a hard-core group of writers who have stated they will not vote for anyone involved with steroids, and until some of them either change their position or die off, he will not have enough votes.

Frankly I see A-Rod & Man-Ram both getting in eventually despite the steroids. With every passing year it becomes less of an issue as the baseball world become desensitized.

My first reaction to the topic is how obvious it is that there really hasn't been great pitching for a long time. Outside of Rivera, I can't make an argument for much of anybody even with several more quality years. The standards have dropped dramatically for what it takes to make it to the HOF as a pitcher.

I'm going to take exception for Rolen being a near lock. Barring an unbelievable run the next five years I don't see him achieving that standard. I think Lance Berkman has a better shot ... look at the numbers. And it would take Puma having another 5 quality years to be in the discussion.

One guy who will have trouble maintaining his legs but is on pace for HOF status is Joe Mauer. He gets no love due to his lack of power. But he's putting together a HOF-type resume, Once again, injuries will make it tough for him to keep up this pace.

He's still young but Verlander could be a shoo in if he continues to perform like he has. He's been getting better each season and was dominating last year.

Evan Longoria!

Vlad? yes? no? maybe?
And I'd put Halladay as more of a lock. I don't like that compiling years worth of stats is a requirement. He's been dominant for a quite while now.

And if Linsicomb(sp?) can stay healthy...

TDDance234 wrote:So, it's a slow week. I came up with a list of 9 current players who I think are worthy of the HOF. What do you think: correct or does somebody need to be omitted? Did I miss anyone?

Locks:
Chipper Jones
Ichiro
Pudge Rodriquez
Jim Thome
Mariano Rivera
Derek Jeter
Alex Rodriquez
Albert Pujols

Near-Lock:
Scott Rolen

On-Pace:
Roy Halladay
C.C. Sabathia
Mark Teixeira

Just Missed the Cut:
Jorge Posada
Maglio Ordonez
David Wright

Discuss.

A-Rod is gonna take a few years, most the rest are probably first ballot locks, except Rivera. Traditionally the writers have been hard pressed to put relievers in (Gossage, Eckersley, Lee Smith, Trevor Hoffman when his number comes up). Ichiro is pretty solid but I think he is going to want to get to 3,000 (maybe 4,000) hits before he is a first ballot lock

Rivera is the greatest closer of this generation. He's in without a doubt, IMO. I hadn't thought about Hoffman but he probably will get in eventually, as well.

Somebody mentioned Adrian Beltre and Andruw Jones in another conversation. Is it possible they get in the HOF?

jbock13 wrote:Evan Longoria!

Absolutely, he keeps up at the rate he's going and he'll be first ballot

TDDance234 wrote:Rivera is the greatest closer of this generation. He's in without a doubt, IMO. I hadn't thought about Hoffman but he probably will get in eventually, as well.

Somebody mentioned Adrian Beltre and Andruw Jones in another conversation. Is it possible they get in the HOF?

Oh I agree that he is in, but like I said, the writers would be hard pressed to put a reliever in on the first ballot, even someone as good as Rivera or Hoffman

Rivera and Hoffman will likely be in first ballot. At least Rivera.

Also Kershaw is very young but if he continues to perform he should be considered, much like Verlander.

But back to the subject at hand, what about Todd Helton? He's borderline probably. Also Giambi, although the steroid issue is there but I have respect for him fully admitting it. I think Thome took steroids too didn't he? I might be off on that.

jbock13 wrote:Rivera and Hoffman will likely be in first ballot. At least Rivera.

Also Kershaw is very young but if he continues to perform he should be considered, much like Verlander.

But back to the subject at hand, what about Todd Helton? He's borderline probably. Also Giambi, although the steroid issue is there but I have respect for him fully admitting it. I think Thome took steroids too didn't he? I might be off on that.

You have to remember that a lot of the writers that are going to be voting are the same guys who held pitchers like Eckersley and Gossage out. They have their established criteria and because of that, they are not going to want to put a reliever in on his first shot. Now depending on when Big Mo retires, a lot of those same writers may have retired or died off by then so that may help his chances (and even those of other good relievers who come up for consideration many years down the road like possibly Heath Bell)

http://joeposnanski.si.com/2011/12/27/h ... &eref=sihp

This story relates to former players that are eligible and waiting to get in to the HOF. I think the background is helpful when considering current players and their future chances of induction in Cooperstown.

I'm a big Andruw Jones fan, but I think he has more work to do to get in. His .256 career BA definately hurts him, although IMHO it is one of the most overrated stats in baseball. I'm afraid he won't get enough credit for his 10 consecutive gold gloves in CF, but with 420 HR at age 34, if he can hang in there a few more seasons and push that closer to 500, he may make it.

Only Braves fans could think Andruw Jones is a HOF-type player.

ALUmnus wrote:Only Braves fans could think Andruw Jones is a HOF-type player.

Agree.

I looked up the list of members of the Hall of Fame and there are only 4 dedicated relief pitchers in there (Rich "Goose" Gossage, Bruce Sutter, Rollie Fingers and Hoyt Wilhelm), so there'd have to be a real change in mindset for Rivera, Trevor Hoffman and others that come after them to be first ballot locks

BJWilliams wrote:I looked up the list of members of the Hall of Fame and there are only 5 dedicated relief pitchers in there (Jim "Catfish" Hunter, Rich "Goose" Gossage, Bruce Sutter, Rollie Fingers and Hoyt Wilhelm), so there'd have to be a real change in mindset for Rivera, Trevor Hoffman and others that come after them to be first ballot locks

Catfish Hunter was a starter.

Rivera>Sutter
Rivera>Gossage
Rivera>Wilhelm
Rivera>Fingers (although Rollie had an amazing number of saves where he pitched the last 3 innings, which you never see today).

In short.................................... Rivera is in......................... first ballot.................... write it down.

I didnt say that he wasnt better than them, Im just saying that there is a general mindset about relievers among those who vote and that is something that the relievers that come up for voting in the coming years will have to deal with until a) the mindset changes or b) enough of those of that older mindset retire and/or die off

Man, you're hard-headed BJ. He's not just another really good reliever who is a "candidate" for the HOF. He's MARIANO ?&%$*! RIVERA. He's the best ever, and you just said yourself he's better than the 4 relief pitchers who are already in. Any bias the voters have had against relievers in the past will not apply to him. The man is universally respected. He's in.

Oh yeah, and Catfish Hunter was a starter.

olldflame wrote:Man, you're hard-headed BJ. He's not just another really good reliever who is a "candidate" for the HOF. He's MANUEL ?&%$*! RIVERA. He's the best ever, and you just said yourself he's better than the 4 relief pitchers who are already in. Any bias the voters have had against relievers in the past will not apply to him. The man is universally respected. He's in.

Oh yeah, and Catfish Hunter was a starter.

He's actually MARIANO &%$*! RIVERA.

olldflame wrote:Man, you're hard-headed BJ. He's not just another really good reliever who is a "candidate" for the HOF. He's MANUEL ?&%$*! RIVERA. He's the best ever, and you just said yourself he's better than the 4 relief pitchers who are already in. Any bias the voters have had against relievers in the past will not apply to him. The man is universally respected. He's in.

Oh yeah, and Catfish Hunter was a starter.

I got that...I'll edit my post accordingly. Also, its Mariano not Manuel...at least get the man's name right

Well, except for the first name, I still stand by everything I posted. I have a friend named Manuel in the DR, and I guess I somehow mixed his name in there.

Olldflame and I are both old enough to remember Catfish Hunter and the other great starting pitchers from the '70s--Jim Palmer, Tom Seaver, Steve Carlton, & Nolan Ryan.

Look, I hate the Yankees, and even I admit Rivera is the best closer ever.