A Sea Of Red

While Tim Tebow is still receiving all the NFL attention, Cam Newton is doing this: http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/73861 ... ing-record

Tebow is two years older than Newton, yet Newton has thrown for almost 4,000 yards this year. Pretty impressive if you ask me, especially since Newton is a rookie and Tebow isn't.

and??? Cam Newton is better then Tebow, not exactly a shocking revelation

The fact that Cam Newton has been impressive with individual stats has no bearing on Tebow whatsoever. I think Newton has turned a to of heads. He had a lot of doubters as well.
Of course the Broncos have a better record then the Panthers!

Purple Haize wrote:The fact that Cam Newton has been impressive with individual stats has no bearing on Tebow whatsoever. I think Newton has turned a to of heads. He had a lot of doubters as well.
Of course the Broncos have a better record then the Panthers!

Are you advocating that Tebow's teammates are equal to what Newton has been given?

Secondly, have you seen who's in Newton's division? The Saints and Falcons. Newton has put up crazy good numbers over actual worthy opponents. I'd bet that Carolina would have already locked up the west if they were there.

Newton will be a better quarterback than Tebow.

will be?? He already is better then Tebow...

Are you trying to start a debate?? I don't think you will succeed.

Winning is why Tebow is still relevant and that is really all there is to it. End of thread

Not to mention, every time that Tebow has faced a good quarterback, the Broncos have been rolled.

Winning against the Chiefs, Chargers and Raiders...doesn't say much. Tebow wouldn't be winning if he was in a different division.

which has little to do with Tebow and more to do with the team as a whole. Much like the Panthers record has little to do with Newton and more to do with the talent surrounding him.

Also, after today Tebow will have only won one more game than Newton this year. Newton would have tore up the AFC West...no question.

cjsweat wrote:Not to mention, every time that Tebow has faced a good quarterback, the Broncos have been rolled.

Winning against the Chiefs, Chargers and Raiders...doesn't say much. Tebow wouldn't be winning if he was in a different division.

This sounds like the old Super Fans skit. 'Ditka v Communist China". Ditka!
I was unaware Tebow played all defensive positions as well as QB.
You sorta defeat your own argument. When the BRONCOS face a good QB they get rolled up ? Wouldn't that reflect that maybe its the DEFENSE that is over rated in Denver? Because it certainly isn't the QB. He is the most maligned QB I can think of outside of Mark Maloe!
If I were drafting and I HAD to chose between Newton and Tebow I would probably take Newton. What this run shows is that those who say you can't win with Tebow are wrong.
On a side note, I think the reasons they lost the last 2 weeks were because they got away from running the ball!

cjsweat wrote:Also, after today Tebow will have only won one more game than Newton this year. Newton would have tore up the AFC West...no question.

he would have just like he has torn up the league, but that team wouldn't of

Purple Haize wrote:

cjsweat wrote:Not to mention, every time that Tebow has faced a good quarterback, the Broncos have been rolled.

Winning against the Chiefs, Chargers and Raiders...doesn't say much. Tebow wouldn't be winning if he was in a different division.

On a side note, I think the reasons they lost the last 2 weeks were because they got away from running the ball!

Sooooo, wait. Tebow is the reason the Broncos have won games. However, the reason they've lost the last two is because they aren't running the ball as much? Isn't a quarterback supposed to throw the ball?

Additionally, it does matter which quarterbacks you face. It's like pitchers in baseball.

How is 13/29 1TD and 4INT while losing 40-14 (against a bad team) not telling you anything about the future of Tebow?

I didn't say the only reason they were winning was because of Tebow. A QB v QB match up is like a pitching match up? Man you can be dense.
The Broncos ran the ball alot and well during their win streak that opened up the passing game. Tebow was able to make those throws. Their Run/Pass ratio has slid more to passing and that's where they are getting in trouble.
Tim Tebow is a QB you can win with. That's not saying he is a great NFL QB.

Andy Dalton

Purple Haize wrote:I didn't say the only reason they were winning was because of Tebow. A QB v QB match up is like a pitching match up? Man you can be dense.
The Broncos ran the ball alot and well during their win streak that opened up the passing game. Tebow was able to make those throws. Their Run/Pass ratio has slid more to passing and that's where they are getting in trouble.
Tim Tebow is a QB you can win with. That's not saying he is a great NFL QB.

Good quarterbacks don't need a good running game to win with. Manning, Brady, Ryan, Brees, Stafford, Rodgers and several others don't rely on a good running game. Grossman, Tebow and Ponder depend on it.

Just because that Tebow has been winning (against bad teams btw), doesn't mean that he's a quarterback that you can win with.

Newton is a quarterback that you can win with. He's putting up big numbers with a horrible team and in a really good division.

My bet is that Tebow won't have a starting job 5 years from now and Newton will be quarterbacking a team into playoffs.

but they need a good defense. Manning didn't win until the defense finally at least was competetive.

Again Cam Newton is clearly the better QB, but don't kid yourself and think he could win many more games then he has with the team he is currently is on by simply playing in a different division

You might wanna re read your post.
The fact that the Broncos WON games with Tebow as QB does not prove you can win games with Tebow as QB? Since they did, and that is pretty empirical evidence, you might want to retract that statement.
I can think of a lot of great QBs who would disagree with you about a good running game. Dan Marino comes to mind.

thepostman wrote:but they need a good defense. Manning didn't win until the defense finally at least was competetive.

Again Cam Newton is clearly the better QB, but don't kid yourself and think he could win many more games then he has with the team he is currently is on by simply playing in a different division

The Panthers have 3 losses to NO/ATL. If that we're KC/OAK or Den/Oak, Carolina would would be 9-6 instead of 6-9. You can't tell me that being in a different division doesn't make a difference.

Defense doesn't mean a whole lot if you have a great QB, see the Patriots. You don't have to have a good defense to win. It can help, but if you're good enough it won't matter.

Secondly, whose to say that since the Panthers don't have to worry about QB issues that they won't start working on a good defense now?

Purple Haize wrote:You might wanna re read your post.
The fact that the Broncos WON games with Tebow as QB does not prove you can win games with Tebow as QB? Since they did, and that is pretty empirical evidence, you might want to retract that statement.
I can think of a lot of great QBs who would disagree with you about a good running game. Dan Marino comes to mind.

Marino had a good running game but he didn't need a good running game.

Also, Vince Young and Matt Leinhart won games when they first came in the league. Just because Tebow is beating bad teams, doesn't mean that it's going to continue long term. Don't be a buyer into the moment, look at the future. It's like a stock. Just because a stock goes up a couple dollars for a few weeks, doesn't mean that the company is going to avoid going bankrupt in two years.

I didn't say they wouldn't win any more games, I said they wouldn't win MANY more games.

And please don't try to compare the offensive talent of the Patriots with the talent of the Panthers. That is comical

Again Cam Newton is better in every aspect...

cjsweat wrote: Defense doesn't mean a whole lot if you have a great QB, see the Patriots. You don't have to have a good defense to win. It can help, but if you're good enough it won't matter.

As a die-hard Patriots fan I must comment on this... CJ there is a reason the Pats haven't won a playoff game since the 2007 season. It's because the D has been hot crap the past few years. You need a good (or at least a decent) Defense to win in the playoffs. All the Pats have proven is that you can have an All-World Offense and still continually get bounced in their first game in the playoffs...

So yeah I wouldn't use the Pats as proof of your point

Sly Fox wrote:Andy Dalton

Steal of the draft!

cjsweat wrote:

Purple Haize wrote:You might wanna re read your post.
The fact that the Broncos WON games with Tebow as QB does not prove you can win games with Tebow as QB? Since they did, and that is pretty empirical evidence, you might want to retract that statement.
I can think of a lot of great QBs who would disagree with you about a good running game. Dan Marino comes to mind.

Marino had a good running game but he didn't need a good running game.

Also, Vince Young and Matt Leinhart won games when they first came in the league. Just because Tebow is beating bad teams, doesn't mean that it's going to continue long term. Don't be a buyer into the moment, look at the future. It's like a stock. Just because a stock goes up a couple dollars for a few weeks, doesn't mean that the company is going to avoid going bankrupt in two years.

Were you even alive in the Dolphins/Marino era? Obviously not.

Purple Haize wrote:

cjsweat wrote:

Purple Haize wrote:You might wanna re read your post.
The fact that the Broncos WON games with Tebow as QB does not prove you can win games with Tebow as QB? Since they did, and that is pretty empirical evidence, you might want to retract that statement.
I can think of a lot of great QBs who would disagree with you about a good running game. Dan Marino comes to mind.

Marino had a good running game but he didn't need a good running game.

Also, Vince Young and Matt Leinhart won games when they first came in the league. Just because Tebow is beating bad teams, doesn't mean that it's going to continue long term. Don't be a buyer into the moment, look at the future. It's like a stock. Just because a stock goes up a couple dollars for a few weeks, doesn't mean that the company is going to avoid going bankrupt in two years.

Were you even alive in the Dolphins/Marino era? Obviously not.

Born in 89.

NG33 wrote:

cjsweat wrote: Defense doesn't mean a whole lot if you have a great QB, see the Patriots. You don't have to have a good defense to win. It can help, but if you're good enough it won't matter.

As a die-hard Patriots fan I must comment on this... CJ there is a reason the Pats haven't won a playoff game since the 2007 season. It's because the D has been hot crap the past few years. You need a good (or at least a decent) Defense to win in the playoffs. All the Pats have proven is that you can have an All-World Offense and still continually get bounced in their first game in the playoffs...

So yeah I wouldn't use the Pats as proof of your point

I'm not saying that they're a great playoff team. Defense does matter in playoffs. However, it doesn't matter if you're just trying to be a good team. You can be good just because of your quarterback.