If you want to talk ASUN smack or ramble ad nauseum about your favorite pro or major college teams, this is the place to let it rip.

Moderators: jcmanson, Sly Fox, BuryYourDuke

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By Sly Fox
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#643393
This is typically one of my favorite threads but I have been distracted the past couple of days.

First off, the USC-UCLA moces has been in the works for a very long time. The announcment timing was not random.

The B1G likely is already in talks and may have agreements already in place with several other schools:

Notre Dame
Clemson
Colorado
Florida State
Stanford
Washington


I hear the rumors about Oregon, Cal & Miami and honestly I don't buy that they bring enough value. Ditto for UVa or UNC. And remember, this is still the Big Ten. They won't be welcoming non-AAU members.

And if you think the SEC is sitting idly by and watching out of pure curiosity, your naivete is showing. Notre Dame, Florida State & Clemson are clearly atop thir wish list. But remember they don't have the academic scruples of their northern rivals. Any remaining ACC or Big XII school is in play. Yeah, I am familiar with the ACC GoR. I also am familiar with the numbers we are talking about being well worth the move financially for the ACC big boys.

But that is all expansion talk. What about the potential for expulsion? If you are Vandy, Mizzou, Northwestern, Purdue or Nebraska right now you have to be sweating. This is business.
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By Have_a_Gansett_2011
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#643394
RE: Ballcoach saying we should petition SEC.

We all know that isn't happening. We're 10% of the schools they just added (UT/OU) in budget, history, research, etc. Our hope lies outside of the SEC. It just does, and that's ok. We must, however, be creative and cutthroat to do what's best for the long-term viability of the athletics program and, ultimately, the mission.
Last edited by Have_a_Gansett_2011 on July 1st, 2022, 12:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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By Have_a_Gansett_2011
Posts
#643395
Sly Fox wrote: July 1st, 2022, 12:33 pm This is typically one of my favorite threads but I have been distracted the past couple of days.

First off, the USC-UCLA moces has been in the works for a very long time. The announcment timing was not random.

The B1G likely is already in talk and may have agreements alreay in place with several other schools:

Notre Dame
Clemson
Colorado
Florida State
Stanford
Washington


I hear the rumors about Oregon, Cal & Miami and honestly I don't buy that they bring enough value. Ditto for UVa or UNC. And remember, this is still the Big Ten. They won't be welcoming non-AAU members.

And if you think the SEC is sitting idly by and watching out of pure curiosity, your naivete is showing. Notre Dame, Florida State & Clemson are clearly atop thir wish list. But remember they don't have the academic scruples of their northern rivals. Any remaining ACC or Big XII school is in play. Yeah, I am familiar with the ACC GoR. I also am familiar with the numbers we are talking about being well worth the move financially for the ACC big boys.

But that is all expansion talk. What about the potential for expulsion? If you are Vandy, Mizzou, Northwestern, Purdue or Nebraska right now you have to be sweating. This is business.
You'd have to think ND/Stanford makes too much sense for B1G at this point. ND TV deal is only think up for discussion at this point. ND knows it's going to hurt unless they commit.

The expulsions are things we as Liberty fans should be hoping for. We should be in a place to work with schools like Vandy, Purdue, Northwestern, Wake, Syracuse, NC St.?, Mizzou, and whoever else to make something exciting that could challenge for future football playoff spots.

SEC is definitely on the hunt and there are lots of ADs/Presidents with open ears. UNC/Duke/Clemson/Miami/VT/UVA.

I hope Pitt ends up in B1G because they fit in every way. Big market, AAU, respectable athletics, natural geography.
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By Sly Fox
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#643397
I wouldn't count on Pitt getting a B1G invitation anytime soon. It doesn't deliver a new market or have a brand that resonates in the marketplace. And thr B1G footprint in now from the NYC to LA. veryone is in the footprint. Sadly the Panthers will likely be left in the Land of Misfit Toys.

It is possible that the B1G takes UVa & UNC as a pairing to shore up the Mid-Atlantic region. But remember that football is driving this realignment. And mediocre to sucky programs in C-Ville & Chapel Hill don't bring much value to contract negotiations. Maryland already delivers the DC market hurting the Hoos' B1G chances.

VT could be in the SC plans depdending on how many schools they choose to take in. In the SEC eyes, VaTech brings more value than UVa or UNC. Although the State of North Carolina is a valuable territory to the SEC that remains uptapped in the South. If the SC chooses to go to 20 then any of those schools could be in the mix.
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By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#643401
I’m ok with that Barstool Big 12 conference.
Isn’t there a State Law that will need adjusting that require UVA and VT to be in the same athletic conference?
By ballcoach15
Registration Days Posts
#643402
As for UCLA and USC to Big 10, both schools have been "middle of the road" (maybe in the ditch) in most all sports lately. Only exception is UCLA softball.
Other than California TV market they bring very little glamour to Big 10.
#643403
ballcoach15 wrote: July 1st, 2022, 1:59 pm As for UCLA and USC to Big 10, both schools have been "middle of the road" (maybe in the ditch) in most all sports lately. Only exception is UCLA softball.
Other than California TV market they bring very little glamour to Big 10.
This is of course true... but we have to admit that:

1. They both have committed to do what it takes in NIL world to succeed
2. They are both heading in right direction on field
3. They corner the biggest TV market in the country not named New York.
4. Their combined history in football and basketball is nearly untouchable as a pair. This is like Kansas and Alabama joining forces. UCLA has just come off a national title game in MBB and USC just hired the biggest coach in CFB not named Saban.
5. When you're recruiting and you can say - You'll get to play Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State every year - and you get to do it while living in LA? That's incredible. Then you can walk down the trophy hallways and look at all the titles, Heismans, Rose Bowl trophies, etc. That stuff matters to a 17 year old kid.
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#643404
Sly Fox wrote: July 1st, 2022, 1:01 pm I wouldn't count on Pitt getting a B1G invitation anytime soon. It doesn't deliver a new market or have a brand that resonates in the marketplace. And thr B1G footprint in now from the NYC to LA. veryone is in the footprint. Sadly the Panthers will likely be left in the Land of Misfit Toys.

It is possible that the B1G takes UVa & UNC as a pairing to shore up the Mid-Atlantic region. But remember that football is driving this realignment. And mediocre to sucky programs in C-Ville & Chapel Hill don't bring much value to contract negotiations. Maryland already delivers the DC market hurting the Hoos' B1G chances.

VT could be in the SC plans depdending on how many schools they choose to take in. In the SEC eyes, VaTech brings more value than UVa or UNC. Although the State of North Carolina is a valuable territory to the SEC that remains uptapped in the South. If the SC chooses to go to 20 then any of those schools could be in the mix.
Yeah in my list I had UVA 6th in what SEC is looking for, but they are absolutely a viable option as a package deal with VT. Duke/UNC definitely move the needle for them. Just think of Duke/Kentucky/UNC battles all winter in MBB and all the money that would generate in the TV world with ESPN. UNC moves the needle on football more than any other NC school which is saying something because that state is really important but lacks any title contenders in football whatsoever.
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By Purple Haize
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#643406
ballcoach15 wrote: July 1st, 2022, 1:59 pm As for UCLA and USC to Big 10, both schools have been "middle of the road" (maybe in the ditch) in most all sports lately. Only exception is UCLA softball.
Other than California TV market they bring very little glamour to Big 10.
Define ‘lately’? UCLA MBB was in the Final Four in 2021
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By Ill flame
Posts
#643407
I think it's important to remember that football success clearly doesn't matter to the B1G that much in realignment. If a school is AAU and will move the needle on the next tv deal the B1G will take them. Rutgers, Maryland and UCLA haven't exactly been great football programs in recent years. I think North Carolina will be a priority for the B1G if notre dame doesn't join. They bring in a big enough market to ignore their lack of football success.

The SEC on the other hand clearly prioritizes football success. Oklahoma, Texas, mizzou and A&M all had football success before joining which leads me to believe Clemson and Florida St would be their priorities even if those programs won't really earn them more money.
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By flameshaw
Registration Days Posts
#643409
Have_a_Gansett_2011 wrote: July 1st, 2022, 11:49 am
ATrain wrote: June 30th, 2022, 9:15 pm
Purple Haize wrote: June 30th, 2022, 9:06 pm

I hate to say it but WVU would fit in the SEC profile at that point. Geography wise they make all sorts of sense for the B1G but Research Institution wise not so much
Yep, I think WVU eventually ends up in a 24 team SEC w/ VA Tech, NC State, Oklahoma State, FSU, Miami, Clemson, and either TCU, Houston, or Pittsburgh.


You've got to think UNC and Duke are at the top of that SEC list with Miami and Clemson. VT, FSU, OkSt, and NCSU are probably their second tier. TCU and Houston stay where they are because the XII will poach those SW Pac schools. They'll have geographic luxury over other super conferences.
I would put Duke and UNC behind every school you mentioned, except NCSU. Duke literally brings nothing to the table except for MBB. UNC brings nothing to the table but MBB and a few women's minor sports, softball, lacrosse, soccer. It appears that these conferences are looking for mainly football. Clemson would be a nice gem for someone to pick up.
By ATrain
Registration Days Posts
#643410
Have_a_Gansett_2011 wrote: July 1st, 2022, 11:49 am
ATrain wrote: June 30th, 2022, 9:15 pm
Purple Haize wrote: June 30th, 2022, 9:06 pm

I hate to say it but WVU would fit in the SEC profile at that point. Geography wise they make all sorts of sense for the B1G but Research Institution wise not so much
Yep, I think WVU eventually ends up in a 24 team SEC w/ VA Tech, NC State, Oklahoma State, FSU, Miami, Clemson, and either TCU, Houston, or Pittsburgh.


You've got to think UNC and Duke are at the top of that SEC list with Miami and Clemson. VT, FSU, OkSt, and NCSU are probably their second tier. TCU and Houston stay where they are because the XII will poach those SW Pac schools. They'll have geographic luxury over other super conferences.
From a standpoint of that the SEC doesn't have any teams or a toehold on TV markets in NC, yes. However, I think the B1G strikes first for UNC, Duke, and UVA.
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By Purple Haize
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#643416
TH Spangler wrote: July 1st, 2022, 8:37 pm Pac12 and ACC are going to be basketball powers.
Will there even BE a PAC anything let alone PAC 12?
By tyndal23
Posts
#643417
Am I naive, or doesn’t ACC have Grant of Rights all tied up until 2033? Does that even matter? Exit fees have held OU and TX in check for possibly 4 seasons and they aren’t poor schools ( at least TX isn’t). PAC 12 TV deal was on its last year - big difference. ND also has some legal issues with ACC - ND to Big 10 or SEC isn’t as casual as most think. I could see contraction to 4 Power Conferences ( big 12 and leftover PAC merging ) and then another grab a year or 2 before ACC tv deal expires.
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By Ill flame
Posts
#643420
tyndal23 wrote: July 1st, 2022, 10:24 pm Am I naive, or doesn’t ACC have Grant of Rights all tied up until 2033? Does that even matter? Exit fees have held OU and TX in check for possibly 4 seasons and they aren’t poor schools ( at least TX isn’t). PAC 12 TV deal was on its last year - big difference. ND also has some legal issues with ACC - ND to Big 10 or SEC isn’t as casual as most think. I could see contraction to 4 Power Conferences ( big 12 and leftover PAC merging ) and then another grab a year or 2 before ACC tv deal expires.
The math is about to drastically change after this new B1G tv contract gets signed. Right now each school in the ACC is getting around $30 million a year while the B1G sits at $57 million. My understanding is that if North Carolina for example leaves for the B1G they would essentially still owe the ACC that money which means North Carolina would essentially be breaking even. With the B1G expected to sign a billion dollar per year contract prior to adding USC and UCLA the math might finally make sense to pay off the ACC for a cut of that B1G tv money. The B1G doesn't typically give new members a full share of the tv money right away which might encourage ACC teams to stay put longer though.
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By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#643421
TH Spangler wrote: July 2nd, 2022, 4:47 am
Purple Haize wrote: July 1st, 2022, 10:10 pm
TH Spangler wrote: July 1st, 2022, 8:37 pm Pac12 and ACC are going to be basketball powers.
Will there even BE a PAC anything let alone PAC 12?

Acually a combination of pac and big 12.

Image
That’s my point. It would be the Big 12. There would no longer BE a PAC 10
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By Sly Fox
Registration Days Posts
#643424
Notre Dame is obviously the only thing holding up this process. They still have their NBC football deal. But I suspect the B1G would be happy to work with them in exchange for bringing their brand into the fold. Once again, that may result in another Indiana school or two getting the boot. And while the SEC sounds like a crazy idea for folks in South Bend, we are talking billion dollar business these days. So anything is possible.

Allegedly Washington & Oregon are waiting on the Irish to find out if they get an invitation to the $100M+ Club. Stanford seems less enthusiastic but obviously would be the final piece to sew up the Pacific Time Zone for the B1G. The folks in Berkeley know their position in the food chain.

The big question now becomes do the two super leagues go to 24 schools apiece? I honestly think that is the endgame. But that could be a short or long term agenda. There is no question that Sankey is feeling the heat to improve his position.

If the Pac craters, the Big XII obviously is best positioned to move on the leftovers. And there are some very valuable properties to be had. Cal would freak about being in the same league with Baylor & BYU but realignment makes for some strange bedfellows. And the Bay Area remains a prize for any league. With BYU already in the fold, Utah is less attractive to the Big XII. Colorado seems like a slam dunk for a return. In fact, they may be the first move if the B1G and SEC indicate they aren't interested. Keep in mind the Mountain Time Zone may be the smallest in total numbers but just two markets essentually sew it up: Denver & Phoenix. If the Big XII were to score CU, ASU & UA it would substantially increase its value. Not to Pre-Texas/Oklahoma exit levels. But not very far behind. This all assumes the guy who was just named yesterday as the next Big XII Commish coming from Jaz-Z's Roc Nation can pull all of this off. The Pac-12 Commish from Vegas is nearly as new and will be trying to poach Big XII schools to keep his league alive. It might be survival of the fittest between the two leagues. The MWC will gladly accept the scraps left behind.
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