If you want to talk ASUN smack or ramble ad nauseum about your favorite pro or major college teams, this is the place to let it rip.

Moderators: jcmanson, Sly Fox, BuryYourDuke

By tyndal23
Posts
#631910
Damien Sordelett wrote: September 17th, 2021, 8:09 pm
paradox wrote: September 17th, 2021, 10:05 am Not really sure what Ian means by Mid-Atlantic. But, I'm guessing, he's using the term loosely. I'll take a hypothetical stab at this. Buffalo, Army, Navy, Temple, UConn, UMass in a north division. And Marshall, LU, ODU, Charlotte, ECU, App State in a south division. I guess, he's saying that only a hypothetical such as this would interest him at this point in time. And a conference like this would make too much sense, which means it will probably never happen.

All this to say, we're in a solid position right now. Ian has done an outstanding job scheduling football as an Indy. And the ASUN has been a significant upgrade for basketball.
The idea Ian is referring to is one that is now being floated around by the national writers, and it is something ODU AD Selig Wood promoted when he spoke with the Harrisonburg Daily News-Record back in August.

Here is the framework of the idea:
The AAC, Sun Belt and C-USA all share geographical footprints, which means more travel for everyone involved. So, in Ian's mind (this is me speculating since I haven't spoken with him at length about this yet) and based on what national writers are suggesting, you take the three G5 conferences and realign them to better fit. For this purpose, the MAC and MWC are not getting touched.

I'll use the example Harrisonburg felt would work (these conference names could obviously remain as AAC, Sun Belt and C-USA, but they were remained for geographical purposes):

East Coast Conference -- Temple, Navy (football only), Marshall, James Madison, Liberty, Old Dominion, Appalachian State, East Carolina, Charlotte, Coastal Carolina, Georgia State, Georgia Southern
Deep South Conference -- Memphis, Middle Tennessee, Western Kentucky, UAB, Troy, South Alabama, Southern Miss, Louisiana Tech, USF, FAU, FIU
Gulf West Conference -- Arkansas State, Louisiana-Monroe, Louisiana-Lafayette, Tulane, Tulsa, North Texas, SMU, Rice, Texas State, UTSA, UTEP, New Mexico State (football only)

That gives two of the three conferences 12 members for football. The next step would be figuring out where Wichita State, Arkansas Little Rock and Texas Arlington go. Little Rock and UTA can obviously go in the Gulf West, while Wichita may be better served to go to the Big East (would make most logical sense to give Creighton a travel partner and add another strong basketball school).

From a market standpoint, each league would have several major ones. And if there is an alliance in scheduling, Liberty getting to see Memphis, UAB, Louisiana and SMU on a rotational basis wouldn't be a bad thing at all. Plus, an 8-game league schedule would allow Liberty to keep its future ACC games and the future Big 12 matchup with UCF in 2024.
Thx D. This sounds great in theory, but how in the world would they implement ? I could only see that happening IF they agreed to an equal pay TV deal / rev share for each conference for a set period of time ( 5 years for example ) before each individual conference could go out and expand or pursue new tv/stream deals.
By tyndal23
Posts
#631911
tyndal23 wrote: September 17th, 2021, 8:39 pm
Damien Sordelett wrote: September 17th, 2021, 8:09 pm
paradox wrote: September 17th, 2021, 10:05 am Not really sure what Ian means by Mid-Atlantic. But, I'm guessing, he's using the term loosely. I'll take a hypothetical stab at this. Buffalo, Army, Navy, Temple, UConn, UMass in a north division. And Marshall, LU, ODU, Charlotte, ECU, App State in a south division. I guess, he's saying that only a hypothetical such as this would interest him at this point in time. And a conference like this would make too much sense, which means it will probably never happen.

All this to say, we're in a solid position right now. Ian has done an outstanding job scheduling football as an Indy. And the ASUN has been a significant upgrade for basketball.
The idea Ian is referring to is one that is now being floated around by the national writers, and it is something ODU AD Selig Wood promoted when he spoke with the Harrisonburg Daily News-Record back in August.

Here is the framework of the idea:
The AAC, Sun Belt and C-USA all share geographical footprints, which means more travel for everyone involved. So, in Ian's mind (this is me speculating since I haven't spoken with him at length about this yet) and based on what national writers are suggesting, you take the three G5 conferences and realign them to better fit. For this purpose, the MAC and MWC are not getting touched.

I'll use the example Harrisonburg felt would work (these conference names could obviously remain as AAC, Sun Belt and C-USA, but they were remained for geographical purposes):

East Coast Conference -- Temple, Navy (football only), Marshall, James Madison, Liberty, Old Dominion, Appalachian State, East Carolina, Charlotte, Coastal Carolina, Georgia State, Georgia Southern
Deep South Conference -- Memphis, Middle Tennessee, Western Kentucky, UAB, Troy, South Alabama, Southern Miss, Louisiana Tech, USF, FAU, FIU
Gulf West Conference -- Arkansas State, Louisiana-Monroe, Louisiana-Lafayette, Tulane, Tulsa, North Texas, SMU, Rice, Texas State, UTSA, UTEP, New Mexico State (football only)

That gives two of the three conferences 12 members for football. The next step would be figuring out where Wichita State, Arkansas Little Rock and Texas Arlington go. Little Rock and UTA can obviously go in the Gulf West, while Wichita may be better served to go to the Big East (would make most logical sense to give Creighton a travel partner and add another strong basketball school).

From a market standpoint, each league would have several major ones. And if there is an alliance in scheduling, Liberty getting to see Memphis, UAB, Louisiana and SMU on a rotational basis wouldn't be a bad thing at all. Plus, an 8-game league schedule would allow Liberty to keep its future ACC games and the future Big 12 matchup with UCF in 2024.
Thx D. This sounds great in theory, but how in the world would they implement ? I could only see that happening IF they agreed to an equal pay TV deal / rev share for each conference for a set period of time ( 5 years for example ) before each individual conference could go out and expand or pursue new tv/stream deals.
And to clarify - a 3 Conference Alliance ( in writing not the handshake Alliance ) for a set period of time with a Czar or board to oversee it, a set window to expire and then each conference can go try and distinguish itself from the other both in revenue and potential expansion. So temporary socialism with assurance of return to pure capitalism after x years...
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By Damien Sordelett
Registration Days Posts
#631912
That is exactly where things get tricky. The Sun Belt has a grant of rights deal through 2031. The AAC's contract with ESPN runs through the 2031-32 season. The C-USA's TV deal with CBS and Facebook is ... not ideal (for lack of a better term that is not allowed on this message board).

What would need to happen is those deals get trashed and each new conference has to pray there is a bidding war among ESPN/Fox/CBS for those conferences. It is what the Big 12 is doing by making Texas and Oklahoma wait until the current television deal expires, and hoping the four replacements create a chance for Fox, ESPN and quite possibly CBS to bid for the right to be the media rights holder for that league.

That's why the theory sounds great because the East Coast league would have Philly, Norfolk, Charlotte, Myrtle Beach and Atlanta; the Deep South would have Memphis, Birmingham and the Florida markets; and the Gulf Coast would have New Orleans, Dallas, Houston and San Antonio. Believe me, the networks see the value in those markets, and it would be interesting to see how any particular bidding war unfolds once the P5s are taken care of.
By tyndal23
Posts
#631914
Damien Sordelett wrote: September 17th, 2021, 8:53 pm That is exactly where things get tricky. The Sun Belt has a grant of rights deal through 2031. The AAC's contract with ESPN runs through the 2031-32 season. The C-USA's TV deal with CBS and Facebook is ... not ideal (for lack of a better term that is not allowed on this message board).

What would need to happen is those deals get trashed and each new conference has to pray there is a bidding war among ESPN/Fox/CBS for those conferences. It is what the Big 12 is doing by making Texas and Oklahoma wait until the current television deal expires, and hoping the four replacements create a chance for Fox, ESPN and quite possibly CBS to bid for the right to be the media rights holder for that league.

That's why the theory sounds great because the East Coast league would have Philly, Norfolk, Charlotte, Myrtle Beach and Atlanta; the Deep South would have Memphis, Birmingham and the Florida markets; and the Gulf Coast would have New Orleans, Dallas, Houston and San Antonio. Believe me, the networks see the value in those markets, and it would be interesting to see how any particular bidding war unfolds once the P5s are taken care of.
Only way to blow up existing tv deals is to give each current tv/cable carrier an incentive - i.e a guaranteed minimum ( formula that says expected x amount of eyeballs, cable co. commits to 70% guaranteed ) The rest is based on payout IF eyeballs hit that projected # and beyond, anything over 100% of projected - another divvy up between cable company and conference that favors conference. I know Universities need to work on a set budget, so there needs to be a guarantee, but cable Cos have been burned by overpaying on long term tv deals so a happy medium where each side shares risk and opportunity makes sense, that combined with better markets - it could be pulled off - a lot of competing interests sitting around 1 table - i volunteer to head it up ( for a small fee of course ).
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By Kricket
Registration Days Posts
#631920
Looks like Air Force and CSU have interest and not BSU or San Diego State.
Thompson wouldn’t say which two are most apt to entertain the AAC’s advances, but several sources inside and outside the conference confirmed they are Air Force and Colorado State — and not San Diego State or Boise State, which seem content to stay in the Mountain West and wait for another round of power conference expansion, most likely with the Big 12. Earlier this year, SDSU Athletic Director John David Wicker called a rumored move to the AAC a “nonstarter.”
https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sp ... rado-state
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By Sly Fox
Registration Days Posts
#631939
Fort Collins is not close to much of anyone aside from Wyoming, Colorado & Air Force. Everything else is a flight for them. Tulsa is in an adjacent state and Texas isn't much further. I know for you Easterners this sounds insane. But west of the Mississippi geography takes on a different perspective. Planes are our friends.

There has been buzz about the AAC possibly convincing the folks in Colorado Springs & Fort Collins to join for awhile now. But the truth of the matter is that both are potential Big XII candidates down the road. Why jump to AAC under those circumsances? Thompson has heard the rumors and went public yesterday to try and squash the rumblings.

The big rumors the past 24 hours about realignment seem to be spurred by speculation that the Big XII might raid the Pac 12 for four schools if they believe they can deliver more compensation to Arizona State, Arizona, Utah & Colorado. That seems unlikely but the Pac 12 is not operating from a position of strength right now with their television negotiations. If Bowlsby can convince those schools that the grass is greener in next TV deal it is possible. I wouldn't describe it as likely.

As for the regionalization concept that Damien described, it has a ton of roadblocks beyond just the economics. Schools like Memphis woud essentially be demoted to the dregs of CUSA. SMU now shares the same league with not only ULM (!?!) but also crosstown commuter school UNT. There is no upside for the remaining AAC schools to want to enter into any such schemes. I think it is much more likely to see some schools get the boot from the Belt who land in CUSA and some CUSA core members joining the SBC after the AAC makes their decisions.
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By Sly Fox
Registration Days Posts
#631947
Let's take a look at some of those who will be voting for the AAC:

R. Gerald Turner
SMU President

Undergrad at Abilene Christian. Involved on board of a number of Christian organizations.


Brad Carson
University of Tulsa President

Undergrad at Baylor. Distinguished military career. Former Democratic Congressman.


Michael Fitts
Tulane President

Longtime Penn Law School Dean.


David Rudd
Memphis President

Former Baylor administrator. Wife received her PhD from BU.


Jason Wingard
Temple President

Philly native with Stanford & Ivy League credentials


Philip Rogers
East Carolina University Chancellor

Greenville native with long history with university.


Rhea Law
University of South Florida Interim President

Stetson Law School alum with strong military & public policy experience.


Richard Muma
Wichita State University President

Medical backrgound married to a guy also named Rick.
By olldflame
Registration Days Posts
#631948
Sly Fox wrote: September 18th, 2021, 2:10 pm Let's take a look at some of those who will be voting for the AAC:

R. Gerald Turner
SMU President

Undergrad at Abilene Christian. Involved on board of a number of Christian organizations.


Brad Carson
University of Tulsa President

Undergrad at Baylor. Distinguished military career. Former Democratic Congressman.


Michael Fitts
Tulane President

Longtime Penn Law School Dean.


David Rudd
Memphis President

Former Baylor administrator. Wife received her PhD from BU.


Jason Wingard
Temple President

Philly native with Stanford & Ivy League credentials


Philip Rogers
East Carolina University Chancellor

Greenville native with long history with university.


Rhea Law
University of South Florida Interim President

Stetson Law School alum with strong military & public policy experience.


Richard Muma
Wichita State University President

Medical backrgound married to a guy also named Rick.
Overall that looks more promising for Liberty than I would have thought.
Richard and Rick remind me of a similarly confusing name situation; the Rubin "family" David and Dave.
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By Sly Fox
Registration Days Posts
#632053
It is looking more and more like the AAC is going to bring in Air Force & Colorado State from the MWC and UAB from CUSA. Could there be a 4th team? Who knows. Most are suggesting either FAU, UTSA or Army.



Does the MWC respond by reaching further into Texas for replacements? If they do, that would alleviate some of the travel issues for CUSA and could wind up resulting in no openings there.

Doe the Sun Belt respond by trying to pull in Marshall, Southern Miss or ODU? I could see them taking a pair of schools if they don't lose Texas State then maybe they take three.

If they lose the Texas contingent, do the eastern CUSA schools feel better about their geography and choose to stand pat? I would say the mosy likely scenario for us to get a CUSA invitation. But is that good enough for us to bite?

One way or the other, it is looking less likely by the hour that we will be on the move. The only way I see anything breaking our way is if Marshall & ODU lead the organization of some new league. I oul put that in the category of unlikely.
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By TH Spangler
Registration Days Posts
#632055
Sly based on those scenarios .. indy is best. Your left over cusa east would not recruit well. IM needs to be wise and patient. They know our intense desire to play at the top G5 level or at P5 and are likely to just try and shake us down. :lol: If they do, I'd rather make them do it by making us buy big home games ... one at a time.
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By Sly Fox
Registration Days Posts
#632083
Houston & TCU were the finalists when the Pac 12 looked at expansion a few weeks ago. Scoring outposts in DFW & Houston would be a coup for the Pac 12. Unfortunately neither school is particularly influential in their markets. It could still happen if the networks demand it in negotiations. Their new commish certainly like them both.

I actually feel better about CUSA now than I did even a few days ago. It all depends on whether the western schools get picked off by MWC. While it may not a big upgrade for football, it would be a big step forward above ASUN in hoops.
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By TH Spangler
Registration Days Posts
#632088
Sly Fox wrote: September 21st, 2021, 7:45 am Houston & TCU were the finalists when the Pac 12 looked at expansion a few weeks ago. Scoring outposts in DFW & Houston would be a coup for the Pac 12. Unfortunately neither school is particularly influential in their markets. It could still happen if the networks demand it in negotiations. Their new commish certainly like them both.

I actually feel better about CUSA now than I did even a few days ago. It all depends on whether the western schools get picked off by MWC. While it may not a big upgrade for football, it would be a big step forward above ASUN in hoops.
Who's left? Does this look right?

Charlotte
Florida Atlantic
FIU
Marshall
Middle Tennessee State
Old Dominion
Western Kentucky
Liberty
By tyndal23
Posts
#632101
Sly Fox wrote: September 21st, 2021, 7:45 am Houston & TCU were the finalists when the Pac 12 looked at expansion a few weeks ago. Scoring outposts in DFW & Houston would be a coup for the Pac 12. Unfortunately neither school is particularly influential in their markets. It could still happen if the networks demand it in negotiations. Their new commish certainly like them both.

I actually feel better about CUSA now than I did even a few days ago. It all depends on whether the western schools get picked off by MWC. While it may not a big upgrade for football, it would be a big step forward above ASUN in hoops.
Sounds like PAC 12 is more interested in Central Time Zone matchups for Their schools and more national eyeballs than about Houston and TCU local market share - that makes a lot of sense - Houston and Dallas access for fans ( flights ) and recruiting markets trump Tech,Baylor, Okie St ( if he is legitimately focused on revenue over academics and all else - which is complete opposite of what most were predicting from the high brow academia Presidents of Pac 12 ).
By olldflame
Registration Days Posts
#632108
ballcoach15 wrote: September 21st, 2021, 12:56 pm No school will be invited to join another conference for academics. It's about 🏈, no matter what horn they may blow.
The issue is not schools being *invited* for academics. Clearly that's not happening. That does not mean that schools cannot be *rejected* because they don't meet a certain academic standard the conference presidents set. They absolutely can.
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By Liberty22
Registration Days Posts
#632120
CUSA is a no from me all day long. Consistently winning the MBB autobid to the tourney is incredible exposure for us. Who cares if our competition upgrades slightly across the board by going CUSA. Being independent for football and dominating a weak league (MBB) just puts us in good realignment position with potential to have an incredible future like BYU. Go to CUSA and you have downgraded football for a small tick of an upgrade (debatable) for other sports. AAC or beyond or stay independent and dominate your league getting national exposure at the tourneys is incredible. MBB Tourney appearances and runs don't get poo poo'd on when you're a cinderella when it comes to your league. You make it and show you belong. It's fantastic exposure so who cares who you beat to get there.
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By tyndal23
Posts
#632122
Ill flame wrote: September 21st, 2021, 4:29 pm Where is all this Pac 12 expansion talk coming from? Didn't they already announce in no uncertain terms they won't be expanding?
Scroll up and watch the video.
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