If you want to talk Big South smack or ramble ad nauseum about your favorite pro or major college teams, this is the place to let it rip.

Moderators: jcmanson, Sly Fox, BuryYourDuke

By ALUmnus
#291567
Who do you think should be the 12th member school in Big Ten?
Currently they have either large midwestern state schools or academically elite midwestern schools. Any universities out there that fit this mold (other than Notre Dame)?

And another side question, what would they rename it?
By JK37
#291582
Pitt is probably the 3rd best option out of the Big East. Syracuse and Rutgers are talkd about much more often. Either one would give them a foothold in the coveted NYC market (and send all the BE's TV deals into a re-negotiating tailspin).

Here's an article sort of summarizing the situation as it stands now: http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/co ... 4882.story

I hadn't even thought of Cincinnati or Louisville until I read the article, but I don't see the Big 10 compromising their high academic tandards to allow a school in that fits regionally. Much better to grab a school in a market they want, who fits academically. Rutgers fits first, then Syracuse.

Here's a great article that shows a lot of the possibilities: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/3072 ... he-targets

The Big 10 is too proud to go back to Notre Dame again. Missouri is a great fit in all ways (geographically, and adding two new markets).

So, my pick: Missouri, with Rutgers running a close 2nd if Missouri decides the Big XII is better.
By JK37
#291584
If the Big 10 picks Missouri:
The Big XII goes after Arkansas from the SEC, reuniting them with their old SWC buddies, a move I believe Arkansas would make .. as the dominoes fall, the SEC goes hunting, and they have options. FSU has tried, and has been blocked by UF in the past. Clemson was blackballed by USC years ago. I think West Virignia could become a seriously viable option to the SEC. Then, the Big East could go hunting in the CUSA for replacements.

If the Big 10 picks Rutgers/Syracuse (because no other BE schools fit the Big 10's high falutin mold):
The BE goes back to CUSA to find replacements, possibly ECU, Memphis, or could even invite Temple back from the MAC to grab the Philly market again. The worse thing here for the BE is losing the coveted NY market, and ABC/ESPN would null their contract and renegotiate, and certainly not for more money.
User avatar
By Liberty4Life
#291590
JK37 wrote:If the Big 10 picks Missouri:
The Big XII goes after Arkansas from the SEC, reuniting them with their old SWC buddies, a move I believe Arkansas would make .. as the dominoes fall, the SEC goes hunting, and they have options. FSU has tried, and has been blocked by UF in the past. Clemson was blackballed by USC years ago. I think West Virignia could become a seriously viable option to the SEC. Then, the Big East could go hunting in the CUSA for replacements.

If the Big 10 picks Rutgers/Syracuse (because no other BE schools fit the Big 10's high falutin mold):
The BE goes back to CUSA to find replacements, possibly ECU, Memphis, or could even invite Temple back from the MAC to grab the Philly market again. The worse thing here for the BE is losing the coveted NY market, and ABC/ESPN would null their contract and renegotiate, and certainly not for more money.
I don't see why the Big 10 doesn't go after Liberty, from what everyone is saying in the football board it seems like Lynchburg is at the center of every desirable media market.
User avatar
By Sly Fox
#291591
Steady ... steady ... steady ... Get Ready to start jumping ...
ESPN.com wrote:Big Ten to explore adding 12th member

By Adam Rittenberg
ESPN.com


The Big Ten Conference will actively explore the possibility of expansion in the next 12-18 months, according to a statement released Tuesday from the league's Council of Presidents/Chancellors.

At a Dec. 6 meeting at the Big Ten offices, the council (COP/C) asked league commissioner Jim Delany to begin the process of identifying and evaluating options for possible expansion from 11 to 12 teams. The Big Ten last expanded in 1989 with Penn State and hasn't seriously pursued the possibility since 1999, when it had discussions with Notre Dame.

"The COP/C believes that the timing is right for the conference to once again conduct a thorough evaluation of options for conference structure and expansion," the statement reads.
Click here for Full Story

For 30 years I have always heard that three schools were the likely expansion targets: Nebraska, Missouri & Notre Dame. I am surprised to not hear the Cornhuskers being brought up in the discussions now.

Whoever gets the call will begin knocking over the dominoes they may fall the way down to our world.
By ATrain
#291594
I don't see Missouri or Nebraska leaving the Big12, and even if they did would Arkansas really leave the SEC???

My list of potential candidates:
BigTen wants Notre Dame, so they're at the top of the list. Assuming they reject them again:
1. Pittsburgh
2. Rutgers
3. Iowa State
4. Syracuse
5. Cincinnati
6. Louisville

Oh the fun speculation this is going to cause, reminds me of the days when the ACC was talking expansion.
User avatar
By Sly Fox
#291599
Would Arkansas leave the SEC to join a more geographically beneficial league of nearly the same stature? Uh yeah. If not, then TCU or Houston would be ready to join the Big XII should Nebraska or Mizzou bolt.

Iowa State? No chance. The same goes for Louisville & Cincinnati as the Big Ten looks way down there noses academically at those schools.
By LUconn
#291602
Pitt will never be a member as long as JoePa is alive. Although I guess in reality he might not be whenever they get around to adding them.

I think BC would be a good fit for them but from what I understand, the Big 10 actually has a rule about it's footprint with adding members and that it has to be from a state that boarders an existing member's state. Seems a little silly but most of their desirable candidates coincidentally meet that criteria.

Why would Big 12 members be so ready to leave for the Big 10 anyway?
User avatar
By Sly Fox
#291608
Nebraska & Missouri consider the Big Ten to be a more elite academic affiliation. Geographically it is a wash for both schools. But you have to remember that it is university presidents who make these decisions. From an athletic standpoint, there really is no value to switch.
User avatar
By Sly Fox
#291625
smoothie - I hope you noted my post that somewhat downplayed the Big XII in relation to Big 10. I am not completely blinded by my burnt orange glasses.

:wink:
By JK37
#291639
THE BAD:

Notre Dame - "Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice..." The Bg Ten won't go back to them after being rejected once. Too proud. This annoucement (I can't recall anything so preemptive regarding conference realignment ever.), could be the final ditch effort at Notre Dame. In other words, they let them know the invitation is open (if ND asks first), and the Big 10 saves face. Either way, that ship has sailed. ND prides itself too much on its football independence.

Iowa State - Big 10 already possesses the largest school in the state. Plus, no new major markets, nor an academic upgrade. No go.

Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, West Virginia, Louisville - pick one or more of the Iowa St. reasons listed above.

The possibilities, in order of my predicted liklihood:

1. Missouri
2. Rutgers
3. Syracuse
4. Nebraska
By LUconn
#291640
When I was a kid I always thought Nebraska was in the Big 10 anyway. Might as well be.
By JK37
#291641
BuryYourDuke wrote:Sorry Sly, there isn't a chance in hades that Arkansas leaves the SEC for the not so Big 12. No one is leaving the SEC by choice.
One person says it, its hearsay. Two say it, you're still skeptical. But when serveral published potential scenarios by people far more itk than us count this as a viable option, you at least consider it.
By uncafan
#291645
JK37 wrote:THE BAD:

Notre Dame - "Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice..." The Bg Ten won't go back to them after being rejected once. Too proud. This annoucement (I can't recall anything so preemptive regarding conference realignment ever.), could be the final ditch effort at Notre Dame. In other words, they let them know the invitation is open (if ND asks first), and the Big 10 saves face. Either way, that ship has sailed. ND prides itself too much on its football independence.

Iowa State - Big 10 already possesses the largest school in the state. Plus, no new major markets, nor an academic upgrade. No go.

Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, West Virginia, Louisville - pick one or more of the Iowa St. reasons listed above.
As (I think) one of the few people on here that is actually a fan of a Big Ten team and in Big Ten land... All valid points. Cincy has no chance. They have a reputation in Ohio (at least if not elsewhere) of less than stellar academic standards and their basketball program is rife with accusations of impropriety (even after Huggins left). West V would have similar problems academically. Pitt is intriguing because of proximity and pretty good academic programs but again, don't see it happening.

Here's the thing with ND. Why would ND want in? They have the easiest road to a BCS bowl because they are an independent with their own special clause, they have their own TV deal they get to play 1/3 of the Big Ten every year anyway -- and get to avoid playing at Ohio State (unless they want to play them) and at Wisconsin and some of the tougher places (besides the teams on their schedule). Now, if a playoff system does come around -- maybe they want in, and I'm pretty sure the Big Ten wouldn't turn them down.

As for the other teams...BC fits academically, does get the Big Ten more media exposure -- but why? Why would BC leave and why would the Big Ten want them? They'd be bottom half in all the big sports -- it does nothing to improve the conference, and sure it gets BC a little more money but it puts them further behind the 8-ball in terms of conference competitiveness for a few years.
Plus it completely changes recruiting for a team like them. Right now they can go recruit the players in NC, or VA that aren't going to the 'Big Time' basketball schools.... If they are in the Big Ten its going to be a lot tougher to sell those same kids because you lose the advantage of playing a UNC or a Va Tech.

I think Syracuse makes more sense -- but their football program also does nothing to help the Big Ten... Certainly would bost their recruiting a bit considering their location. Should be interesting though. But, academics will definitely play a key role...As will reputation of the school. I understand the media issue is big, but, I'm not so sure its as big as you guys are thinking. I mean its not the Big South struggling to get a foothold in major cities.

They've made huge strides with the Big Ten network which is already on standard digital cable throughout most of the midwest (and its on regular old basic cable throughout Ohio and a lot of other states), and also already available in most sports packages across the country. I do understand that getting a BC or someone shifts the ABC/ESPN coverage from acc to Big Ten for that particular market (most likely), and gets more press coverage in papers/tv etc. But considering the TV deals the big Ten already has.... I'm not sure its the reason for this move. I mean, they are already far and away making more than any other conference on TV deals... So I just don't see that as the primary driving force. I think competitiveness in football and finishing the season soooo early has a lot to do with it. A lot more than they would ever admit.

AND if the Big Ten does add a school, I can guarantee you the Pac-10 will at least explore the options as well. Although I think its going to be much tougher for them, unless they are willing to drop the academic standards significantly.
User avatar
By BJWilliams
#291648
The Pac-10 might have a harder time adding anyone...if they did theyd have to look at one of the MWC teams or maybe a Colorado out of the Big 12
By bigsmooth
#291653
pitt brings more credibility in football and basketball than missouri or rutgers which is what they care about and is a better geographical fit and makes penn state play pitt. if i would rank them, i would say pitt then missouri. and sly ...i hear ya my friend :D
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By Liberty4Life
#291656
LUconn wrote:When I was a kid I always thought Nebraska was in the Big 10 anyway. Might as well be.
Nah, the rule of thumb is the Big 10 is for the Blue Collars, the Big 12 is for the hicks.
By JK37
#291661
Let's do it this way: identify the criteria the Big 10 is likely to use in their selection process, and then see what schools fit within that criteria:

1.Academics
2.Money (that's TV; not radio/newspaper coverage)
3.Geography (rule: no new member not within a state bordering the state of a current member. Also, not an urban style campus)

Explanation: football quality will be a lesser criteria, though still considered because the reason for this is a 12th football school for a championship game. That said, the white collar Big 10 belives admittance into their conference will automatically enhance the football at any school. I believe basketball quality will be a minimum consideration; its simply not a driving force for this.

Now, let's consider the schools we've discussed, to see if they fit within these criteria:

Notre Dame - fits, but there's history here
Pittsburgh - urban style campus, looked-down upon by Big 10, Penn State could block
West Virginia, Louisville, Cincinnati - low academics
Missouri - fits all criteria (brings St. Louis and Kansas City TV markets
Nebraska - TV?
Syracuse - fits, though NY market is affected to lesser extent than Rutgers
Rutgers - fits all criteria
Boston College - haven't looked at a map lately, but I think they fall prey to the conference state-bordering rule. Otherwise, it might be a nice fit.

This is why Missouri & Rutgers are the most viable options at this time.

Someone said TV wouldn't be a major consideration because they already have a superb deal. Maybe you guys can agree with me: once you have a lot of money...you want even more money. If the Big 10 had a shot at more, I feel confident they would go after it. Plus, let's not kid ourselves: championship game (which they've admitted is the catalyst for this) = more money/exposure.

All of this to say, keep your eyes on Mizzou and the Scarlet Knights, then the Orangemen or Cornhuskers if neither of the first two are chosen.
By ATrain
#291670
The other thing that'll be interesting is how politics will play into it. The Virginia legislature/Mark Warner "persuaded" UVa to get VT into the ACC.
By ALUmnus
#291676
I would probably put Syracuse over Rutgers. If you've ever spent a lot of time in NY, you'd realize that no one around there cares about Rutgers, but Syracuse gets a lot of love. And I think BC has much better athletics than you're giving them credit for. As for Pitt, how would having an urban-style campus matter?
By JK37
#291677
ALUmnus wrote:I would probably put Syracuse over Rutgers. If you've ever spent a lot of time in NY, you'd realize that no one around there cares about Rutgers, but Syracuse gets a lot of love. And I think BC has much better athletics than you're giving them credit for. As for Pitt, how would having an urban-style campus matter?
BC - doesn't fit their geographic rules, and as someone previously pointed out - BC may not want into the Big 10.

Syracuse/Rutgers - agree to disagree .. we'll see.

Pitt - only such style currently in the Big 10 is Northwestern .. plus, I know some of the Big 10 looks down on them.
By ALUmnus
#291685
What about a school like Kentucky, do they have poor academic standards? Might not be the best fit, but seems UK would be just as good an option as some of the ones mentioned. Just thinking out loud.

Also, the conference would have to rebrand itself, they could no longer trick us into thinking they have 10 teams. How about:
The Big Bigs
The Bigger 12
Great Northern
The Big North
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