[Humble_Opinion]

Never said stay in the Big South. But we put all our cards on the table so we are now most likely stuck here. Although I hope that is not the case
Yes both Ga Southern and App St had demonstrable success at the FCS level before moving up. I would argue that having comparable success with better resources would mean a better Conference invite.
If we did land in the SBC it would only be temporary. At least I would hope so. Based on past performance I would think as soon as we had been accepted we would start saying we are ready to move on to the the next level #ACCReady. It could be used as a stepping stone but we could and more likely would be stuck and mired there for a long time.
So I'm not sure where the hypocrisy is at

The only other conference to add FCS programs in this round of re-alignment was the CUSA, and they based their choice more around the MSA size than anything else, because they filled most of their spots with programs that had already demonstrated athletic success to some degree in the FBS. Yes, ODU had some success in football and was decent in other sports, but we all know that the main reason they wanted ODU was because of the huge amount of eyeballs in the 757 area code. Ditto Charlotte. SO - the only FBS conference to pull new members out of the FCS, in large part because of demonstrated athletic success at the FCS level, was the SBC. You continue to advocate that we need to show success at this level before we move up, but in all likliehood the only option will be the SBC, which in just a few posts back you said was a crap conference that probably isn't worth our time.

[jimflamesfan]

I do like the FBS independent option as long as the Big South keeps us for all of the other sports. It might be the easiest way to go. However, the danger is...do bad as an independent...and all the fans and progress are lost. I remember the FCS independent Rutugliano and Karcher days where near the end of the season, the staduim was about empty. No one cared anymore. That's a danger of FBS independence.

However, if Coastal ends up going Sunbelt...and JMU leaves for Sunbelt, MAC, or Conference USA...Liberty may be better served going hard after the CAA. I know it's FCS. But the CAA is actually a better men's baskeball conference than the Sunbelt, and our football team would get over twice the exposure. The bottom line is, it won't matter how well LU does if no one is watching! Here are the attendance numbers I could find...furthermore, home football games against W&M & Richmond would probably draw as well at Williams as most of the Sunbelt schools.

2015 Average Men’s Basketball Attendance by Conference
CAA ranked #17 of all conferences, averaging 2,396 people per game.
Sunbelt ranked #23 of all conferences, averaging 2,039 people per game.
Big South ranked #30 of all conference, averaging 1,466 people per game.


2014 cumulative attendance for football by conference
Sunbelt conference football teams had a total 951,296 fans in the regular season.
CAA conference football teams had a total of 676,064 fans in the regular season.
Big South conference football teams had a total of 232,833 fans in the regular season.

[jimflamesfan]

The other option is to stay Big South and learn to dominate. We need to become the Gonzaga of the Big South. Surely, if Coastal Leaves, and we're the only school in the conference paying full cost of attendance for football, we should be near the top each year.

If Liberty wins a FCS national championship...it even helps our case with the NCAA...we could say we've accomplished everything there is to do at this level...

[jimflamesfan]

And as much as we rag on the Big South. The conference has given us a lot. We do need to be thankful for Coastal, Gardner Webb, High Point, UNC Asheville, Longwood, Winthrop, Charleston Southern, Kennesaw State, Radford, & Presbyterian.

The Big South has done great things for our baseball team, our girls basketball team, and our football, volleyball, and track teams.

Our men's bb team really hasn't taken advantage of being in the Big South (other than about 3 or 4 times). But the conference helps us tremendously in scheduling and having a ticket to the big tournament if we win the conference.

Plus, unlike other conferences, they seem to go out of their way to try and appease us (the full cost of attendance thing and television network stuff).

[flameshaw]

PH said:
"What is there to disagree with? The approach we used didn't work. We are not in the SBC Coastal will be. Would another approach have worked? We don't know. But we do know what DIDN'T work. On the bright side maybe the Powers That Be learned from this and try a different approach, if it's even possible now, next time"

The point that I disagree with, is that the administration handled the situation wrong. The process didn't end up with the result they sought. However, a jump to saying they didn't handle it correctly, is quite a big one. We don't know the criteria they used to come to the conclusion(s) they did. What did they know, when did they know it? For sure, no one here knows the answer to that and many more questions.
Based on past history of the overall program and university as a whole, I would have to say we have an outstanding group of leaders. They are not perfect, but don't know many who are. FWIW, I will continue to stand behind them until they give me a reason not to.

[bluejacket]

I do like the FBS independent option as long as the Big South keeps us for all of the other sports. It might be the easiest way to go. However, the danger is...do bad as an independent...and all the fans and progress are lost. I remember the FCS independent Rutugliano and Karcher days where near the end of the season, the staduim was about empty. No one cared anymore. That's a danger of FBS independence.

However, if Coastal ends up going Sunbelt...and JMU leaves for Sunbelt, MAC, or Conference USA...Liberty may be better served going hard after the CAA. I know it's FCS. But the CAA is actually a better men's baskeball conference than the Sunbelt, and our football team would get over twice the exposure. The bottom line is, it won't matter how well LU does if no one is watching! Here are the attendance numbers I could find...furthermore, home football games against W&M & Richmond would probably draw as well at Williams as most of the Sunbelt schools.

We won't get an invitation to another FCS conference (CAA, SoCon, etc.). As long as we are FCS, we will be in the Big South, barring a vote to expel us from the conference.

[Purple Haize]

Never said stay in the Big South. But we put all our cards on the table so we are now most likely stuck here. Although I hope that is not the case
Yes both Ga Southern and App St had demonstrable success at the FCS level before moving up. I would argue that having comparable success with better resources would mean a better Conference invite.
If we did land in the SBC it would only be temporary. At least I would hope so. Based on past performance I would think as soon as we had been accepted we would start saying we are ready to move on to the the next level #ACCReady. It could be used as a stepping stone but we could and more likely would be stuck and mired there for a long time.
So I'm not sure where the hypocrisy is at

The only other conference to add FCS programs in this round of re-alignment was the CUSA, and they based their choice more around the MSA size than anything else, because they filled most of their spots with programs that had already demonstrated athletic success to some degree in the FBS. Yes, ODU had some success in football and was decent in other sports, but we all know that the main reason they wanted ODU was because of the huge amount of eyeballs in the 757 area code. Ditto Charlotte. SO - the only FBS conference to pull new members out of the FCS, in large part because of demonstrated athletic success at the FCS level, was the SBC. You continue to advocate that we need to show success at this level before we move up, but in all likliehood the only option will be the SBC, which in just a few posts back you said was a crap conference that probably isn't worth our time.

We disagree but that doesn't make my stance hypocritical. You noted on your own that other Conferences added FCS schools. You didn't add that other conferences gave FCS schools a serious look as we'll

EDIT: I think what may clear it up further is that the has consistently stated that we should not take the 1st offer we get (SBC) but the Best Offer.

[jimflamesfan]

Stony Brook received an invitation from the Big South to the CAA.

Elon worked their way from the Big South to the SoCon to the CAA.

If JMU leaves the CAA and Coastal leaves the Big South...what school would the CAA look to for JMU's replacement? Why not Liberty? What school would be a better option for them? Why wouldn't Liberty get a look in that scenario?

[Yacht Rock]

Because they know we will leave as soon as FBS calls. A lot of other schools either aren't interested in FBS or aren't advertising a "first FBS conference available" attitude.

The risk in establishing a relationship with us is that they would know that our desire as a school is to not be in it for the long term.

[Kiwon]

So Coastal's president has stated in the Myrtle Beach newspaper that if the SB offers they will accept. He also stated that they would immediately expand their stadium to 21-22k. Looks like they will be invited at some point. He did say that SB officials also visited EKU and plan on one more visit next week. Any chance they visit Lynchburg?

If they do come to Lynchburg, unlikely IMVHO since like SJ said they've already been,it's just as a formality with no real intentions of an invitation coming our way.

They haven't visited since the latest offer was made...

Did I miss something?

Has anyone identified the 3rd school they are visiting this week?

[SuperJon]

NMSU.

[LUconn]

Because they know we will leave as soon as FBS calls. A lot of other schools either aren't interested in FBS or aren't advertising a "first FBS conference available" attitude.

The risk in establishing a relationship with us is that they would know that our desire as a school is to not be in it for the long term.

Its worth having us for as much or as little time as they get us because we'll happily pay a hefty exit fee and they'll gleefully accept it. We bring any FCS conference either a stable partner or a quick payday. If they were smart they would take either.

[Purple Haize]

I do like the FBS independent option as long as the Big South keeps us for all of the other sports. It might be the easiest way to go. However, the danger is...do bad as an independent...and all the fans and progress are lost. I remember the FCS independent Rutugliano and Karcher days where near the end of the season, the staduim was about empty. No one cared anymore. That's a danger of FBS independence.
.

You should be put in some sort of Time Out / Penalty Box for this post.

1. The implausibility of being an FBS Independent has been hashed over a thousand times. It's pretty much the worst idea since New Coke, Crystal Pepsi or Skinny Jeans
2. Why would the BSC want to do us any favors? It's well known they only tolerate us as we tolerate them. If they lost us in FB why would they want to keep us for Tennis?
3. The only saving grace of your post is you remember the empty stadium under Rigs and Karcher. It would be much much worse now because we have more seats that would not be filled. As a silver lining, concessions would be easier to access.

[Purple Haize]

Because they know we will leave as soon as FBS calls. A lot of other schools either aren't interested in FBS or aren't advertising a "first FBS conference available" attitude.

The risk in establishing a relationship with us is that they would know that our desire as a school is to not be in it for the long term.

Its worth having us for as much or as little time as they get us because we'll happily pay a hefty exit fee and they'll gleefully accept it. We bring any FCS conference either a stable partner or a quick payday. If they were smart they would take either.

That is an intriguing thought

[Kiwon]

The point that I disagree with, is that the administration handled the situation wrong. The process didn't end up with the result they sought. However, a jump to saying they didn't handle it correctly, is quite a big one. We don't know the criteria they used to come to the conclusion(s) they did. What did they know, when did they know it? For sure, no one here knows the answer to that and many more questions.

Based on past history of the overall program and university as a whole, I would have to say we have an outstanding group of leaders. They are not perfect, but don't know many who are. FWIW, I will continue to stand behind them until they give me a reason not to.

+1

[flameshaw]

I do like the FBS independent option as long as the Big South keeps us for all of the other sports. It might be the easiest way to go. However, the danger is...do bad as an independent...and all the fans and progress are lost. I remember the FCS independent Rutugliano and Karcher days where near the end of the season, the staduim was about empty. No one cared anymore. That's a danger of FBS independence.
.

You should be put in some sort of Time Out / Penalty Box for this post.

1. The implausibility of being an FBS Independent has been hashed over a thousand times. It's pretty much the worst idea since New Coke, Crystal Pepsi or Skinny Jeans
2. Why would the BSC want to do us any favors? It's well known they only tolerate us as we tolerate them. If they lost us in FB why would they want to keep us for Tennis?
3. The only saving grace of your post is you remember the empty stadium under Rigs and Karcher. It would be much much worse now because we have more seats that would not be filled. As a silver lining, concessions would be easier to access.

+1 on all points. The only thing worse than staying in the BS, would be trying to go FBS independent. The empty stadium had a lot to do with the fact that we sucked as a team. Heck, I even missed some games during the Karcher disaster. Rocco was a good choice to bring us to respectability once again. It was an equally good choice for him to move on. He took us as far as he was able. Hopefully Gill can build on the successes that we finally achieved last year.

[ATrain]

Because they know we will leave as soon as FBS calls. A lot of other schools either aren't interested in FBS or aren't advertising a "first FBS conference available" attitude.

The risk in establishing a relationship with us is that they would know that our desire as a school is to not be in it for the long term.

True, but it would be a good marriage of convenience while it lasted. The SoCon is out of geographically viable football members for the CAA to swipe. Unless they try to raid the Patriot League or Northeast Conference, we're their best bet.

[PAmedic]

We will just have to agree to disagree on that one. Hindsight is 20/20. I am not sure that anyone could have predicted that such a tolerant/inclusive group of great universities that comprise the SBC, would be so intolerant/exclusive when it came to allowing LU into the group because of our mission and/or money, growth projectory. (FWIW, I believe strongly, it was the money and growth potential).

I've stayed out of this as much as possible- mainly cause SJ texted me and got me all cranked up.

but I'm gonna throw this grenade out there and then sit back and watch:

http://www.coastalfans.com/forum/index. ... =58202.690

A number of Liberty fans believe that their big budget scared off the Sun Belt.

The reality is this. They would have been one notch above the lowest rated Sun Belt school academically. The difference being that the two lowest rated institutions were added as full members when the Sun Belt needed IMMEDIATE additions to remain an FBS league because the rules were changed. Both had been wanting in but couldn't get the votes until the urgency was created. Who you add when you are desperate is different than when you aren't.

Presidents aren't going to be crazy about adding a non-elite private to a league of state schools especially one that big into distance education.

In the shared governance environment presidents don't want the hassle of the Faculty Senate complaining about adding a school where academic freedom doesn't include believing the earth is more than a few thousand years old and the Student Government complaining about the code of conduct.

READ: a. "religious people are ignorant kooks and there is no place for them in higher education."
b. "Liberty people are all young earth creationists so we won't play football with them."

discuss.

[Kolzilla41]

We will just have to agree to disagree on that one. Hindsight is 20/20. I am not sure that anyone could have predicted that such a tolerant/inclusive group of great universities that comprise the SBC, would be so intolerant/exclusive when it came to allowing LU into the group because of our mission and/or money, growth projectory. (FWIW, I believe strongly, it was the money and growth potential).

I've stayed out of this as much as possible- mainly cause SJ texted me and got me all cranked up.

but I'm gonna throw this grenade out there and then sit back and watch:

http://www.coastalfans.com/forum/index. ... =58202.690

A number of Liberty fans believe that their big budget scared off the Sun Belt.

The reality is this. They would have been one notch above the lowest rated Sun Belt school academically. The difference being that the two lowest rated institutions were added as full members when the Sun Belt needed IMMEDIATE additions to remain an FBS league because the rules were changed. Both had been wanting in but couldn't get the votes until the urgency was created. Who you add when you are desperate is different than when you aren't.

Presidents aren't going to be crazy about adding a non-elite private to a league of state schools especially one that big into distance education.

In the shared governance environment presidents don't want the hassle of the Faculty Senate complaining about adding a school where academic freedom doesn't include believing the earth is more than a few thousand years old and the Student Government complaining about the code of conduct.

READ: a. "religious people are ignorant kooks and there is no place for them in higher education."
b. "Liberty people are all young earth creationists so we won't play football with them."

discuss.

The fact that ANY school in the Sun Belt considers themselves "elite" is laughable. We're every bit on par academically as any other school in that league.

[Humble_Opinion]

arkstfan wrote:A number of Liberty fans believe that their big budget scared off the Sun Belt.

The reality is this. They would have been one notch above the lowest rated Sun Belt school academically. The difference being that the two lowest rated institutions were added as full members when the Sun Belt needed IMMEDIATE additions to remain an FBS league because the rules were changed. Both had been wanting in but couldn't get the votes until the urgency was created. Who you add when you are desperate is different than when you aren't.

Presidents aren't going to be crazy about adding a non-elite private to a league of state schools especially one that big into distance education.

In the shared governance environment presidents don't want the hassle of the Faculty Senate complaining about adding a school where academic freedom doesn't include believing the earth is more than a few thousand years old and the Student Government complaining about the code of conduct.

His statement regarding our academic stature in comparison to other SBC schools is categorically false when looking at all standard metrics required for reporting from the Dept of Ed. LU is not at the bottom of the heap in virtually any measure, whether it's FT/FT Retention rates, FT/FT avg GPA, 25th and 75th percentile Math/Reading SAT scores, etc. Even our graduation rates, despite the disadvantages we face in the way they are calculated are not that bad. He either is relying too heavily on magazine rankings, or he hasn't looked at the data.

The fact of the matter is that LU is on par from an academic standpoint. In a time of relative turmoil, falling budgets and enrollment issues in the industry, LU stands out as growing stronger by nearly every measure. We continue to increase the size of our resident enrollment year over year, all the while improving our academic metrics of the incoming class. When we are fully tapped out with the current plan in a few years, enrollment will be able to become even more choosy. Understand though that the mission of LU was never to become "elite" from a selective standpoint. That is not how the school measures it's success, unlike many of the current crop of administrators in Higher Ed. We aren't going to be exactly like Notre Dame, BYU, Baylor, much less any of the Ivies in those terms. But, we will have strong academic success factors, elite facilities, and perhaps one of the broadest bases of academic disciplines/majors of all of higher education. Much time and work has been put into building programs that meet the standards of SACS and each of the professional/specialized accrediting bodies that matters.

To be blunt, I think many of you short-change the university on this level because the status quo has changed so fast that even the alumni and "well-connected" couldn't keep up. It should be no surprise that the adminstrators and fans of institutions in other FBS conferences, including the SBC, were unable to as well. I will readily admit that the administration now needs to focus on getting the word out there to change this. In my time at LU, I believe I saw steps being taken that would move LU in the right direction. I just hope that they stay the course, by remaining positive and avoiding the urge to deningrate other institutions by pounding our chest and saying our model is right. Let the success speak for itself.

[Yacht Rock]

Because they know we will leave as soon as FBS calls. A lot of other schools either aren't interested in FBS or aren't advertising a "first FBS conference available" attitude.

The risk in establishing a relationship with us is that they would know that our desire as a school is to not be in it for the long term.

Its worth having us for as much or as little time as they get us because we'll happily pay a hefty exit fee and they'll gleefully accept it. We bring any FCS conference either a stable partner or a quick payday. If they were smart they would take either.

Oh, in my personal opinion I completely agree and if we are FCS for the foreseeable future, would prefer it. I hope that's the way it would be seen by those who can decide.

[Purple Haize]

LU isn't the Ivy League by any stretch of the imagination. But to say that CCU is far superior to us Academically is laughable at best. I'm not even sure they ARE better Academically. Party school? They beat us hands down. It shows the quality of people involved in the conference sooooo many of you are desperate to be a part of

[olldflame]

I get it that as a State University Coastal fits in better with the rest of the SBC. As far as academics are concerned though, are they rated much if any better than we are? I admit to not having done any research, but apparently some of you have. I could be wrong, but I am not aware that CCU is considered to be elite academically in any way, shape or form.

[olldflame]

Wow, Purple and I were thinking the same thing at the same time.

[Purple Haize]

Wow, Purple and I were thinking the same thing at the same time.

Don't resist the power of Truth is difficult to swallow when you first hear it!