[LU-Hoo]

If it ever comes to the point where NBC is no longer a viable option for ND, they'll move to whatever conference they choose. And it won't be the ACC

$50,000,000 says they will join the ACC in that case - as in exit fee...

[bluedevilflame]

I don't see them ever leaving the ACC and they will eventually jump the football program. ND may have a ridiculous amount of money and boosters, but $50 million is enough to make them (or any school) think twice about moving. The ACC provides ND built in rivalries for football (possible grow these rivals in basketball), Boston College, Miami, Pitt, GTech, and the ability to gain in recruiting and prestige in basketball by having conference foes like Duke and UNC on the schedule every year. Not to mention LAX, while not a revenue sport, has ND in one of the top leagues in the country for LAX, the 2010 and 2012 LAX final four would have had 3 ACC teams in it had ND been in the league. This is a win win for Notre Dame and football will eventually comes, it just makes sense. Plus, John Swofford is a smart commissioner, I can almost guarantee that there is something we don't know in regards to ND football in the future, you can see that by having them required to schedule 5 conference teams a year. Just a matter of time..

[LU-Hoo]

I don't see them ever leaving the ACC and they will eventually jump the football program. ... Just a matter of time..

One of two things needed for this to happen:
1) NBC contract isn't renewed in 2014, or is renewed for significantly less $$$ than ESPN is willing to give the ACC to divie up among member institutions...
2) FBS playoff somehow dictates conference tie-ins

Otherwise, ND would give up too much by giving up indy status.

[bluedevilflame]

I don't see them ever leaving the ACC and they will eventually jump the football program. ... Just a matter of time..

One of two things needed for this to happen:
1) NBC contract isn't renewed in 2014, or is renewed for significantly less $$$ than ESPN is willing to give the ACC to divie up among member institutions...
2) FBS playoff somehow dictates conference tie-ins

Otherwise, ND would give up too much by giving up indy status.

I understand that there are a lot of factors in the situation, but what conference is willing to take in Notre Dame minus football for the for see able future? The Big 10 won't, the Big 12 may but they're academics and location doesn't fit what ND wants and the PAC 12 and SEC aren't even factors as far as this is concerned. I really don't see independence working at the FBS level any more, even for ND. BYU and Army will eventually land in conferences (Big East is my guess) and we all know that NM State and Idaho are heading back to FCS. It's too tough to be indy, especially with mega conferences popping up everywhere and conference games dominating teams schedules in the future. The ACC has rolled the dice and are banking on ND football coming on board and I think its just a matter of time before it happens.

[logic]

I still see the ACC gettting shut out of a four team playoff most years. I see a two loss SEC team going over a one loss ACC team. I see a one loss team from the Big 12 or PAC-12 beating out a one loss ACC team every time. IF an ACC team goes 12-0, do they get in over a one loss SEC team? I don't know.

Suppose LSU and Bama both go 11-1. USC goes 12-0. Virginia Tech goes 12-0 and someone in the Big Ten goes 12-0.


I see

USC vs. Bama

LSU vs. Big Ten

I see the Hokies getting shut out as the 1 loss SEC teams would get voted in over a 12-0 Tech squad. That is no disrespect to the Hokies....but I think a 1 loss SEC team is stronger, most of the time.

The ACC is that conference that can't quite seem to reach the upper levels the other four have and I'm just not sure it ever will. Florida State and Miami are not the programs they once were. UNC will forever be a basketball school, and the others not named VaTech or Clemson are just taking up space. But even Tech and Clemson have been so-so on the national stage lately. Tech has owned the ACC since joining, but is 3-5 in bowl games in that same span. Clemson meanwhile holds the same exact record, 3-5, in bowl games during that span. Florida State has won a bunch of bowl games but hasn't won the ACC title since 2005.

To top it off, the ACC was 2-6 last year in bowl games.....anyone remember the Orange Bowl? Ouch.


You all like geography so much with your conference alignments (I'm looking at you, Haize), and ND is obviously right in the middle of Big Ten country. Also, the Big Ten simply has more money than the ACC, and it really isn't even close.

Check this out - http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.co ... 5-million/

The Big Ten will pay each member 25 million in shared revenue this year, much higher than the 17 million per year payout in the ACC. The Irish are bringing in 15 million a year from the NBC deal...really not all that much, and would have MADE an extra ten million a year by joining the Big Ten.

Yes, Jack is a smart guy...but I think everyone out there thinks the NBC deal is bigger than it is...it really isn't that much when you see the Big Ten payouts.

Now surely the ACC will renegotiate with the networks and that 17 million per school payout will increase, but the Big Ten could have done the same with the BTN and Comcast and they're already starting 8 million higher per school.

Again people understand that -

1. The Big Ten pays out 25 million a year to member schools
2. The ACC pays out 17 million a year to member schools
3. NBC pays ND 15 million a year


ND would make 2 million more a year by joining the ACC in football and 10 million by joining the Big Ten.



Finally, look at the ACC football stadiums as compared to the Big Ten


ACC -

1. Florida State 84,300
2. Clemson 81,500
3. Miami 76,500
4. Virginia Tech 66,233
5. North Carolina 60,000
6. Virginia 61,500
7. NC State 57,583
8. Georgia Tech 55,000
9. Maryland 54,000
10. Boston College 44,500
11. Duke 33,941
12. Wake Forest 31,500


Big Ten -

1. Michigan 109,901
2.Penn State 107,282
3.Ohio State 102,329
4.Nebraska 81,067
5.Wisconsin 80,321
6.Michigan State 75,005
7.Iowa 70,585
8.Illinois 69,249
9.Purdue 62,500
10. Indiana 52,692
11. Minnesota 50,805
12. Northwestern 49,256



The Big Ten is a big-time football conference. The ACC...not so much. Say what you want about "rust belt" this and "rust belt" that....the Big Ten fills bigger stadiums than the ACC and will continue to do so for a long, long time.

[jbock13]

The reason I know the Big East rumor is bogus is simple... could the basketball team actually beat anyone? The big east is still a predominantly basketball conference.

[Purple Haize]

There is plenty of smoke up here in Montana. I've been hacking on it all morning.

Well don't buy your new home in a fire plain!

[NotAJerry]

The B1G is an increasingly poor football conference. This idea that they're in the conversation with the top tier is absurd. You would think a decade of being embarrassed in nearly every big game they've played would have been noticed by now.

[jbock13]

The B1G is an increasingly poor football conference. This idea that they're in the conversation with the top tier is absurd. You would think a decade of being embarrassed in nearly every big game they've played would have been noticed by now.

They aren't the best, but it's completely asinine to argue they're not in the top tier. I'd put the SEC, Big 12, and PAC 12 ahead of them.

[JK37]

Some people are talking like a four-team playOff is a lock. How hard is it to believe in expansion to eight? Then the ACC champ has a shot. If super conferences form to the size of 16, then ND may be compelled to join. And the NBC deal isn't the only appeal to being independent. The freedom to derive revenue from scheduling, even away games, disappears in a conference. There is also fear that their considerable revenue from licensing (used to be #1 in nation, not sure if still is) would diminish as a result of a diluted brand once their football program joined a conference. Lastly, they're proud of their independent status.

[logic]

Is this the longest thread ever?

[flamesfan30]

i dont know, but its definitely earning its "Megathread" billing.

[adam42381]

You all like geography so much with your conference alignments (I'm looking at you, Haize), and ND is obviously right in the middle of Big Ten country. Also, the Big Ten simply has more money than the ACC, and it really isn't even close.

Check this out - http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.co ... 5-million/

The Big Ten will pay each member 25 million in shared revenue this year, much higher than the 17 million per year payout in the ACC. The Irish are bringing in 15 million a year from the NBC deal...really not all that much, and would have MADE an extra ten million a year by joining the Big Ten.

Yes, Jack is a smart guy...but I think everyone out there thinks the NBC deal is bigger than it is...it really isn't that much when you see the Big Ten payouts.

Now surely the ACC will renegotiate with the networks and that 17 million per school payout will increase, but the Big Ten could have done the same with the BTN and Comcast and they're already starting 8 million higher per school.

Again people understand that -

1. The Big Ten pays out 25 million a year to member schools
2. The ACC pays out 17 million a year to member schools
3. NBC pays ND 15 million a year


ND would make 2 million more a year by joining the ACC in football and 10 million by joining the Big Ten.

You're logic is flawed. The conference members receive those payouts for all sports. NBC pays Notre Dame $15 million for football. You failed to include how much of a payout will the ACC give them for non-football sports. They stand to make $3.4 million from the ESPN ACC basketball deal alone.

[LU-Hoo]

logic, your logic is not completely flawed... A few comments:

- B1G is on a higher level than ACC right now. Great FB, tradition, $$$...
- I did think ND was getting more from NBC... If ND and one more join ACC in football, a renegotiated TV deal with ESPN could push the $$$ closer to B1G levels. That being the case, ND could possibly be persuaded to join when the current NBC contract expires in a couple of years.
- The ACC is more appealing not for the money, but for the NE and SE exposure. ND wants to be a national school and not tied to the B1G footprint. This is also why indy status is important to them - they want the freedom to schedule regularly out west as well... Like us all, they want their cake and want to eat it too.
- The ACC will continue to be the odd team out until they compete on a higher level, win a few BCS type games, dominate OOC games they should win, etc... It comes down to performance.

[LU-Hoo]

Is this the longest thread ever?

By far my favorite thread in this forum!

[bluedevilflame]

- The ACC is more appealing not for the money, but for the NE and SE exposure. ND wants to be a national school and not tied to the B1G footprint. This is also why indy status is important to them - they want the freedom to schedule regularly out west as well... Like us all, they want their cake and want to eat it too.

I've never understood this argument, they would have non conference match ups in a conference, schedule USC, Stanford, Michigan/State for those games.

[LU-Hoo]

I've never understood this argument, they would have non conference match ups in a conference, schedule USC, Stanford, Michigan/State for those games.

The ACC is going to a 9 game conference schedule, leaving only 3 non conference games annually. ND wants USC, Stanford, Navy at least every year, along with MI, MI St, Purdue as often as possible, if not more often... Full conference schedule severely hinders this. It's what ND wants, and for now what ND gets.

[bluedevilflame]

I get wanting to keep tradition, but college football tradition is out the window these days as far as rivalries go. Expansion and growth causes sacrifice, apparently like you said ND gets what they want and the same rules don't seem to apply to them....yet.

[logic]

You're logic is flawed. The conference members receive those payouts for all sports. NBC pays Notre Dame $15 million for football. You failed to include how much of a payout will the ACC give them for non-football sports. They stand to make $3.4 million from the ESPN ACC basketball deal alone.

The ACC Pays out 17 million. Add the 3.4 million from basketball and it is still 5 million below the Big Ten. 25-20.

logic, your logic is not completely flawed... A few comments:

- B1G is on a higher level than ACC right now. Great FB, tradition, $$$...
- I did think ND was getting more from NBC... If ND and one more join ACC in football, a renegotiated TV deal with ESPN could push the $$$ closer to B1G levels. That being the case, ND could possibly be persuaded to join when the current NBC contract expires in a couple of years.

15 million is the number from NBC.
Yes, a renegotiated ACC deal with ND included would be more money....but don't forget a renegotiated deal with Comcast/BTN would be in the works as well, and the Big Ten starts at a much higher payout than the ACC.

logic, your logic is not completely flawed... A few comments:

- The ACC is more appealing not for the money, but for the NE and SE exposure. ND wants to be a national school and not tied to the B1G footprint. This is also why indy status is important to them

But is the southeast footprint worth foregoing 8 million + per year more that they would make in the Big Ten? I know the ND pockets run deep and reach far, far back in time...but IMHO there will come a time when even mighty ND will need, in order to survive, will need to join a conference to have those guaranteed payouts. With this move you can see the writing on the wall....just wasn't sure why it was the ACC and not the Big Ten, and mostly for financial / geographical reasons.

And again as much as Sly and co complain about the Rustbelt and everyone praises that "SEC Speed," when looking at $$$, there are only 6 college stadiums in the country with over 100,000 seats, and 3 of the top 4 are Big Ten schools. Big Ten with 3, SEC with 2, and Big 12 with one. Everything is "bigger in Texas," but it is Michigan and the rusted, lagging Detroit metro area that has packed 100,000+ into Michigan Stadium since the 70's, a streak of over 200 straight games of 100,000 + crowds.

Now think about this....Michigan has been seating 100,000+ since the 1970's and Texas just expanded to 100,000+ in 2009.

[NotAJerry]

Gameday crowd size is almost completely meaningless for major conference football. Who cares if Michigan or OSU can seat 100k if they're routinely embarrassed by every good team they play OOC.

The B1G brings in a bit more money than the ACC right now, but the quality of football is getting progressively worse with no signs of improvement for a solid 10 years now. OSU is struggling against a pretty mediocre Cal team at home today. Don't forget just how bad Michigan got spanked by Alabama. The B1G is not good football.

ND has absolutely no use for the B1G, especially their footprint of shrinking cities and football teams that used to be relevant in the national picture.

[LU-Hoo]

The teams in B1G gave history and tradition that is hard to overcome. The brand recognition drives the tv $$$ as much or more than the actual product. It will take many years of mediocrity to overcome that. From what I saw today, there is more than enough mediocrity in the ACC to keep it far behind the B1G for the next decade or more... Regarding ND, they still have a way out. If they ever need to join a conference in FB, I'm beginning to doubt their desire to associate with the likes of the ACC. If it ever comes to that, they may very well head to B1G.

[NotAJerry]

The teams in B1G gave history and tradition that is hard to overcome. The brand recognition drives the tv $$$ as much or more than the actual product. It will take many years of mediocrity to overcome that. From what I saw today, there is more than enough mediocrity in the ACC to keep it far behind the B1G for the next decade or more... Regarding ND, they still have a way out. If they ever need to join a conference in FB, I'm beginning to doubt their desire to associate with the likes of the ACC. If it ever comes to that, they may very well head to B1G.

Nothing today from the B1G was any better than the mostly bad play in the ACC. ND isn't going to pay $50 million to jump from a below average football conference with great basketball and a far superior footprint just to go to a below average football conference with much worse basketball and "tradition." If the B1G continues on its current trajectory, they may be looking up at the Big East in another 10 years.

[LU-Hoo]

If the B1G continues on its current trajectory, they may be looking up at the Big East in another 10 years.

Now that's funny! And I can see the ACC looking up a both...

As the college FB landscape changes all the time, I actually see some stability in the ACC. ND really has what they want right now and I don't see that changing anytime soon unless playoffs dictate they join a conference. But if playoffs expand to 8 or more, I see no reason why they would have to, unless significantly more money becomes available to teams in a conference.

[logic]

The teams in B1G gave history and tradition that is hard to overcome. The brand recognition drives the tv $$$ as much or more than the actual product. It will take many years of mediocrity to overcome that. From what I saw today, there is more than enough mediocrity in the ACC to keep it far behind the B1G for the next decade or more... Regarding ND, they still have a way out. If they ever need to join a conference in FB, I'm beginning to doubt their desire to associate with the likes of the ACC. If it ever comes to that, they may very well head to B1G.

Nothing today from the B1G was any better than the mostly bad play in the ACC. ND isn't going to pay $50 million to jump from a below average football conference with great basketball and a far superior footprint just to go to a below average football conference with much worse basketball and "tradition." If the B1G continues on its current trajectory, they may be looking up at the Big East in another 10 years.

Ha!!! You're saying all of this while Tech lost to Pitt today. Hey, maybe the Panthers will help the ACC profile? Tech and GATech both 3-5 in their last 8 bowl games. What else does the ACC have to offer? How did VaTech do against Michigan last year? The ACC is awful.

[NotAJerry]

The teams in B1G gave history and tradition that is hard to overcome. The brand recognition drives the tv $$$ as much or more than the actual product. It will take many years of mediocrity to overcome that. From what I saw today, there is more than enough mediocrity in the ACC to keep it far behind the B1G for the next decade or more... Regarding ND, they still have a way out. If they ever need to join a conference in FB, I'm beginning to doubt their desire to associate with the likes of the ACC. If it ever comes to that, they may very well head to B1G.

Nothing today from the B1G was any better than the mostly bad play in the ACC. ND isn't going to pay $50 million to jump from a below average football conference with great basketball and a far superior footprint just to go to a below average football conference with much worse basketball and "tradition." If the B1G continues on its current trajectory, they may be looking up at the Big East in another 10 years.

Ha!!! You're saying all of this while Tech lost to Pitt today. Hey, maybe the Panthers will help the ACC profile? Tech and GATech both 3-5 in their last 8 bowl games. What else does the ACC have to offer? How did VaTech do against Michigan last year? The ACC is awful.

You really are completely incapable of logical thought, aren't you? Which part of the above statement, "Nothing today from the B1G was any better than the mostly bad play in the ACC," did you not understand? The B1G and ACC are pretty much a wash in football, with the B1G on a sustained downward move, and the ACC is far superior in basketball. The ACC isn't very good in football, but neither is the B1G and the ACC has the advantage in most other sports.