[ATrain]

It is not EXPLODING down here. The only schools that even consider playing it are your 4A schools and even then, most people's first year playing lacrosse is their freshman year. It's getting bigger, but it's by no means exploding.

Yeah, it's ONLY grown 500% since 1999, that's nothing short of exploding. If any other sport were growing by that much it would be considered exploding. Idiot.

Yeah, but any other sport probably had more than 1,000 players in 1999.

[flamesbball84]

It is not EXPLODING down here. The only schools that even consider playing it are your 4A schools and even then, most people's first year playing lacrosse is their freshman year. It's getting bigger, but it's by no means exploding.

Yeah, it's ONLY grown 500% since 1999, that's nothing short of exploding. If any other sport were growing by that much it would be considered exploding. Idiot.

Yeah, but any other sport probably had more than 1,000 players in 1999.

1000 * 500% doesn't equal 250,000. If the sport had 250,000 youths participating in it and that included 500% growth, that would mean there 50,000 participating in it before the increase, not 1000...

[thepostman]

Yeah, it's ONLY grown 500% since 1999, that's nothing short of exploding. If any other sport were growing by that much it would be considered exploding. Idiot.

Yeah, but any other sport probably had more than 1,000 players in 1999.

1000 * 500% doesn't equal 250,000. If the sport had 250,000 youths participating in it and that included 500% growth, that would mean there 50,000 participating in it before the increase, not 1000...

exploding to me not only means growth as far numbers go, but monetarily as well...and UFC has lacrosse killed on that....lacrosse is growing...you are completely right about that....but there is still no steady league bringing in money and few americans know much about lacrosse...

[ATrain]

Yeah, it's ONLY grown 500% since 1999, that's nothing short of exploding. If any other sport were growing by that much it would be considered exploding. Idiot.

Yeah, but any other sport probably had more than 1,000 players in 1999.

1000 * 500% doesn't equal 250,000. If the sport had 250,000 youths participating in it and that included 500% growth, that would mean there 50,000 participating in it before the increase, not 1000...

Thank you for the math lesson...now you know why I was a COMS major
However, I will stand by my statement that any other sport probably had more than 50,000 people participating in it.

[Sly Fox]

I hate to drag myself into this discussion which I would prefer to remain about MMA and not personal spats. But back on the original topic ...

MMA is an unqualified box office success right now. In fairness to 84 the same could be said of wrestling a decade ago. I realize one is completely staged and the other only has that appearance (reference matshark's cynicism of last night's card). But MMA has clearly been heavily influenced by Vince McMahon's style and back stories. To deny that renders MMA supporters as frauds.

And frankly MMA could be this decade's fad considering its explosive growth among fans who still generally view the sport as a curiosity. Building staying power is going to be the sport's biggest challenge outside of the trappings of greed that have nearly destroyed boxing.

I am trying to get into MMA. Really I am. Do I enjoy it as much as boxing? Not in the least. But I recognize the quality of boxing is in major decline (which is why I am trying to get into MMA). I think I am like many new fans who really are intrigued by the action but have a real bad taste in our mouths from what we see of the people behind the sport.

[flamesbball84]

exploding to me not only means growth as far numbers go, but monetarily as well...and UFC has lacrosse killed on that....lacrosse is growing...you are completely right about that....but there is still no steady league bringing in money and few americans know much about lacrosse...

Which would you rather take going out of college: a great paying job on wall street (which Wall Street is a pipeline for lacrosse players due to the culture of the sport) or in some other business endeavor or a marginally paying job playing professional lacrosse in the MLL or NLL? It's not much of a choice as far as I'm concerned. The salaries aren't high enough yet in the MLL for lacrosse players to not have to work another job to supplement their income - just like many WNBA players don't jsut exclusively play in the WNBA for their only job - but with the great amount of growth witnessed by the league (explained below), the salaries have been growing each year since it's existence.

The MLL has actually been rather steady since it's inaugural season on the summer of 2001 with Fox Sports Net broadcasting a few games live. The league expanded to LA, Chicago, Denver, and San Francisco in 2006 to make 10 teams - thats three teams out west, proving it's more than jsut a new england sport. In 2006 they also started creating regional tv networks for each team and reached an agreement with ESPN2 to broadcast 11 live games each year through 2016. Compare that to the Arena Football League, which needed 16 years (1987-2003) to get some of it's games broadcasted live on a major network. Yahoo!, Rebbok, New Balance, Bud Light, Dick's Sporting Goods, Under Armour, Gatorade, Fox Sports Net, SoBe, and Tommy Hilfiger either all currently sponsor or were sponsors at one point for the league and the league has only been playing for eight years now. I have to say that's pretty dang impressive growth and success for a league that short lived and indicates steady growth of a professional league. The league has been more successful than any other football, basketball, or baseball league created since the 1990s. Many of it's games bring in over 10,000 fans. Some MLB teams don't bring in more than 10,000 fans for some of it's games and the MLB has been in existence for a drastically longer time than the MLL.

[flamesbball84]

In fairness to 84 the same could be said of wrestling a decade ago. I realize one is completely staged and the other only has that appearance (reference matshark's cynicism of last night's card). But MMA has clearly been heavily influenced by Vince McMahon's style and back stories.

That was basically what I was getting at when comparing the WWE/WWF/WCW world of the 90s and early 2000s to that of the MMA. The fights in MMA may not be staged like in the WWE, but the same people into the wrestling stuff (which includes tons and tons of rednecks and trailer park trash, by the way) are getting into MMA for the exact same reasons why they got into wrestling: it provided the violence they wanted and and all the drama and story lines they wanted that you'd get from a soap opera without the embarrassment of watching a real soap opera. If I were still in to this type of stuff like I was back in the heyday of the WWF/WCW, I'd be all over the MMA, but I got tired of all the soap operaness of it and the death of the real ECW is what put the nail in the coffin for me with this type of sports entertainment.

[SuperJon]

Yeah, it's ONLY grown 500% since 1999, that's nothing short of exploding. If any other sport were growing by that much it would be considered exploding. Idiot.

Yeah, but any other sport probably had more than 1,000 players in 1999.

1000 * 500% doesn't equal 250,000. If the sport had 250,000 youths participating in it and that included 500% growth, that would mean there 50,000 participating in it before the increase, not 1000...

See, this is where you're grasping at straws. You said in the south it was EXPLODING. I responded by saying that in the south, it was not EXPLODING. I never denied growing, but denied EXPLODING. You respond with national numbers. I have no doubt in the northeast it's getting bigger and bigger. People up there can afford it. There's a reason that the south is good in two sports: baseball and football. They're relatively inexpensive sports to play as a kid and parents can afford it and there's a league (or two or three) in every town. Lacrosse is only played in the cities and you have to pay a crap ton of money for equipment and league fees, something you don't have to do in the other two sports. Is lacrosse growing in the south and throughout the country? Yes it is. Is it EXPLODING. Not a chance.

[thepostman]

exploding to me not only means growth as far numbers go, but monetarily as well...and UFC has lacrosse killed on that....lacrosse is growing...you are completely right about that....but there is still no steady league bringing in money and few americans know much about lacrosse...

Which would you rather take going out of college: a great paying job on wall street (which Wall Street is a pipeline for lacrosse players due to the culture of the sport) or in some other business endeavor or a marginally paying job playing professional lacrosse in the MLL or NLL? It's not much of a choice as far as I'm concerned. The salaries aren't high enough yet in the MLL for lacrosse players to not have to work another job to supplement their income - just like many WNBA players don't jsut exclusively play in the WNBA for their only job - but with the great amount of growth witnessed by the league (explained below), the salaries have been growing each year since it's existence.

The MLL has actually been rather steady since it's inaugural season on the summer of 2001 with Fox Sports Net broadcasting a few games live. The league expanded to LA, Chicago, Denver, and San Francisco in 2006 to make 10 teams - thats three teams out west, proving it's more than jsut a new england sport. In 2006 they also started creating regional tv networks for each team and reached an agreement with ESPN2 to broadcast 11 live games each year through 2016. Compare that to the Arena Football League, which needed 16 years (1987-2003) to get some of it's games broadcasted live on a major network. Yahoo!, Rebbok, New Balance, Bud Light, Dick's Sporting Goods, Under Armour, Gatorade, Fox Sports Net, SoBe, and Tommy Hilfiger either all currently sponsor or were sponsors at one point for the league and the league has only been playing for eight years now. I have to say that's pretty dang impressive growth and success for a league that short lived and indicates steady growth of a professional league. The league has been more successful than any other football, basketball, or baseball league created since the 1990s. Many of it's games bring in over 10,000 fans. Some MLB teams don't bring in more than 10,000 fans for some of it's games and the MLB has been in existence for a drastically longer time than the MLL.

all of that proved exactly what i was saying...lacrosse is growing...no doubt about it...but to compare its growth to MMA's growth isn't really a fair comparison no matter how you feel about the sport itself that is just the way it is...

[JDUB]

i like watching UFC

[matshark]

(Well most of us anyways... I'm sure TTL will chip in about how he abhores it)

this is why i avoid mma...everybody I have ever talked to that is hardcore into it is a jerk in some way....and you fit that bill

even more reason why MMA is garbage!

blah blah blah... TTL enjoys taking shots at everything I post... (seriously, look at every thread im on, for real) its ok, I don't take it personally.

TTT for SJ and Postman. Excellent posts btw.

Check out this article on Yahoo tonight:

http://sports.yahoo.com/mma/news?slug=k ... &type=lgns

and this one on ESPN:

http://sports.espn.go.com/extra/mma/new ... d=tab8pos1

btw SF, if ur in the burg, you should come watch the fights with us. you'll have a blast. just tonight i had one of my buddys watch the WEC fights with us. he's a 3x VA state champ and he wrestled D1 for 5 years (1 red shirt). he LOVED it. you're guaranteed to have a good time.

Postman, don't take it personally if we don't agree with you. I mean, why would you even come on here and try and start a flame war (no pun intended) over Lax vs UFC? It's not like any of us that disagree with you think you are a bad person or anything, we just think ur wrong.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy watching Lax myself. A good friend in Balti (who co-incidentally runs an MMA school up there) is not only a states atty for Baltimore (at 26) but also played and coaches Lax. But please don't act like someone called a family member a person of ill repute or something. That's just a little over-reaction.

I realize LU started a womens LAX team. It's called title IX. Its the same reason a lot of colleges are just dropping mens teams instead of adding women's teams. Look at the comparison of LU Mens hockey vs the Womens. LU's womens hockey team was arguably top 2 in the nation. But compare it to the mens, and hardly anybody showed up. They didn't add it for its popularity. They added it for it's expediency.

Oh, and if I created a sport that went from 1 player to 10, I'd have 1000% growth, but its still statistically irrelevant when there are 200,000,000 people in the country (and that's only counting voters). We get it, you like Lax - and thats cool - but until it starts pulling over 1 Million people throwing down $50 for 3 hrs of competition, its not even close.

Like I said, don't take it personally. I'm sure you're a nice guy. I just think that on this particular view, you're wrong.

[LUconn]

i like watching UFC

Same here. Ultimate Fighter is a pretty good way to get into it too.

[SuperJon]

this is why i avoid mma...everybody I have ever talked to that is hardcore into it is a jerk in some way....and you fit that bill

even more reason why MMA is garbage!

blah blah blah... TTL enjoys taking shots at everything I post... (seriously, look at every thread im on, for real) its ok, I don't take it personally.

That's the difference here, and it's sad that you can't see it. He make take a shot at you, but it's when you post things. You took a shot out of left-field in a thread he didn't even post in. It's one thing for saying someone said something stupid. It's another to get off on making fun of someone who isn't even in the discussion.

[Hold My Own]

Kimbo would be owned by anyone in the UFC HVW division

[matshark]

even more reason why MMA is garbage!

blah blah blah... TTL enjoys taking shots at everything I post... (seriously, look at every thread im on, for real) its ok, I don't take it personally.

That's the difference here, and it's sad that you can't see it. He make take a shot at you, but it's when you post things. You took a shot out of left-field in a thread he didn't even post in. It's one thing for saying someone said something stupid. It's another to get off on making fun of someone who isn't even in the discussion.

well i actually am quite surprised he hasnt shown up yet given that i've already posted twice... i do hope he's ok...

[Hold My Own]

SJ's telling people not to take shots at people...



even after our little spat you've already called someone else an idiot...good thing it wasnt me! There is a way to disagree with people but I dont think SJ has stumbled upon it yet

[thepostman]

well i actually am quite surprised he hasnt shown up yet given that i've already posted twice... i do hope he's ok...

he's been around...so he has seen it...chances are he could care less about your crap...

SJ's telling people not to take shots at people...



even after our little spat you've already called someone else an idiot...good thing it wasnt me! There is a way to disagree with people but I dont think SJ has stumbled upon it yet

as many shots as he may take at people he really isn't being a hypocrite here since he never does it unless they say something stupid (in his opinion)...matshark took a random shot at someone because the guy doesn't like guns or something..and since guns i guess make you more of man, he has to take a shot a TTL because that is what real men do...

::Edited since HMO posted right before mine posted....

[Hold My Own]

Huh?

[Hold My Own]

I'm just tired of people going around calling people idiots for voicing his opinion...his opinion is that it's the next WWE...i disagree with that but he's not an idiot for it....if you go around calling enough people idiots one day you'll end up calling the wrong person an idiot...but sometimes thats what it takes

[matshark]

Kimbo would be owned by anyone in the UFC HVW division

I think i'd put money on anybody in ANY UFC division...

bj penn lost a decision to Lyoto Machida at 205 lbs (yes, bj is the current UFC 155 champ and Machida just won a decision against Tito at 205)

i think that not only would bj KO kimbo standing up, he would take him down and clown him on the ground before choking him out...

oh, and i'd like to point out that the guys fighting for EXC are mostly UFC or UFC Ultimate Fighter rejects. That being said, they are getting paid more than most of their counterparts over in the UFC, so I can't really blame them.

[thepostman]

I'm just tired of people going around calling people idiots for voicing his opinion...his opinion is that it's the next WWE...i disagree with that but he's not an idiot for it....if you go around calling enough people idiots one day you'll end up calling the wrong person an idiot...but sometimes thats what it takes

yeah...i actually agree with this as far as opinions goes i agree...but if someone is truly acting like an idiot (matshark), then they deserve to be called out....

[matshark]

well i actually am quite surprised he hasnt shown up yet given that i've already posted twice... i do hope he's ok...

he's been around...so he has seen it...chances are he could care less about your crap...

well it'd be nice if he cared less about my crap more...lol

[Hold My Own]

I'm just tired of people going around calling people idiots for voicing his opinion...his opinion is that it's the next WWE...i disagree with that but he's not an idiot for it....if you go around calling enough people idiots one day you'll end up calling the wrong person an idiot...but sometimes thats what it takes

yeah...i actually agree with this as far as opinions goes i agree...but if someone is truly acting like an idiot (matshark), then they deserve to be called out....

I know matshark and I know him well enough to say he wont go home crying b/c SJ called him an idiot so really I could careless about that...but this other kid has 900 some posts so he obviously doesnt come around a lot as it is..and if I was him I wouldnt want to come back when I voice my opinion and I get blasted for it.

[Hold My Own]

Well, I just read more posts by 84...he may very well be an idiot...but still, I think that should stop

[ALUmnus]

It's amazing to me the hatred toward kimbo slice by the "real fans" of ultimate fighting. When this sport first started, it was pitted as any fighting style you can imagine going up against each other, nothing held back, and the best fighter would win. Now it's turned into a submission love-fest. And just because the guy doesn't fight exactly like every other fighter, he's branded as hype or not a true fighter. Come on, at least he's bringing some variety to an otherwise snooze-a-thon. I don't want to see tap-outs, I want to see knock-outs. I wish they'd get back to the roots of this contest and make it a world-wide, all styles welcome fighting competition.