If you want to talk ASUN smack or ramble ad nauseum about your favorite pro or major college teams, this is the place to let it rip.

Moderators: jcmanson, Sly Fox, BuryYourDuke

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By TallyW
Registration Days Posts
#393217
Purple Haize wrote: We were in a world of hurt in the 90's financially. We were still in financial trouble until Doc passed away.
What does manager or leader have to do with anything. You certainly can manage your way forward. You can also lead your way into disaster.
How do our options expand being a Div 1A Independent? How does that help us in recruiting? Sure we are FBS but we have no B in our future. Yep recruits will flock! My 'right' does not keep us where we are since 89. Because last I checked we haven't been to the playoffs won a national title and pulled off a stunning upset of a FBS school. All those things will make us infinetly more desireable then being an Independent at the FBS level.
You sound grumpy today. Do you need a hug?

DEBT:
Yes we were carrying debt. I was at LU during the miracle years when we were praying for $50 million dollars. The entire time I saw buildings going up everywhere around me. That was an inspiring sight to see. I learned to attempt great things. I wasn't taught to manage my way through life but rather go and take bold and calculated risks. Instead of seeing the fact that people took risk and many made sacrifices to build something great, you tend to lean toward Eeyore complex. Constantly talking about problems isn't a way to get anywhere.

OPTIONS:
Our options expand once we get into FBS. We cannot get in as an Independent so your question is irrelevant. My point is and has been to get in first. Then we can build our platform.

FCS?
Again, I repeat... no one cares if you win at the FCS level. App State is in the same position we're in and they are essentially the team you just described.

LEADING VS. MANAGING:
Finally, being a leader vs. manager certainly matters. In general, managers do not create paths, they follow them, keep them clear of debris and send reports up the line about how long and wide the paths are. Managers are VERY needed but not when striking out for something new. We all have predispositions in our skill sets and gifts. Leadership is needed to see the future and inspire others to what they cannot yet see. Managers tend not to inspire people... they hire and fire them. When you're trying to move forward you need leaders who access the risk and then charge the hill first. The managers are vital to carry out the plans but they rarely will take the first step on their own. Managers tend to be risk-adverse.

Doc was anything but a manager. He took a lot of chances that had high risk and high reward. He often talked about the fact that there are 6 failures for every success so he determined to take 7 to get one.

Things are better now but Doc's insurance payout wasn't the only factor... It sounds like you think the last 5 years are built mainly on that claim. They aren't. While it did clear the books for a fresh start there were things in the pipeline that would have started to payoff even without that policy.... Namely LUOnline... (DLP, EDP)

LUOnline (which Doc championed without knowing how to adjust later) has become a huge success for us ever since the cap for the on campus to online ratio was removed. It seems that taking your approach not much would get done unless and until we could do it perfectly. I'm not sure if you realize this but by the time you are "there" the world has changed. You have to anticipate and go... not sit back and manage.
Last edited by TallyW on June 9th, 2012, 5:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
By logic
#393220
Haize -


I was starting to agree with you until pages 48 and 49 of this thread. TallyW has it right. We need to get into the WAC now and then be ready for whatever comes next. Haize...What is the pecking order for conference realignment? Where did the majority of move-up's in the Sun Belt and CUSA come from? Other FBS leagues. UNCC and ODU were the outliers. Perhaps with some WAC success if it folds in the future CUSA would take us. I would love to compete with ECU and Marshall and ODU on a regular basis. Will not happen from the Big South and FCS...has a better shot if we go to the WAC. You seem to like the idea as well so I am not sure why you are saying that the Big South would be better than ANY FBS league (WAC/SunBelt/CUSA and yes, even independent are infinitely better than staying in the Big South).

Also...I respectfully but strongly disagree with your assessment of WVU leaving for the Big 12. Tell me about the upcoming death of the BCS system. Tell me about the four mega-conferences and how the Big East and the ACC will be on the outside looking in. Tell me about the PAC-12, BigTen, SEC, and BIG-12 breaking away and conducting a four team playoff. Tell me about the TV dollars that will follow such a deal. Now tell me about the Big East and it's future...tell me about it's place in the national scope and it's place as a major football conference. Being the 6th best option wasn't good enough for West Virginia and now they're in a much, much better place when you look ahead 10-15 years. Travel costs are laughable and irrelevant when you put it in perspective of gaining a spot in the very elite four team playoff.

The new NCAA model -

D1A+ = the four super conferences
D1A = all other FBS schools on the outside looking in
D1AA = FCS
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By jbock13
Registration Days Posts
#393221
Common sense doesn't work on this thread Haize. Just give it up.
By logic
#393223
jbock13 wrote:Common sense doesn't work on this thread Haize. Just give it up.

Common sense that thinks staying in a Big South Conference that could lose Stony Brook and Coastal is better than any FBS conference? Common sense that thinks West Virginia leaving the 6th best football conference for one of the new "big four" that will ultimately break away and form an upper level FBS league with a four team playoff is a bad thing?

He could make a compelling argument that FBS independent if the WAC folds would be tough, and I would agree. At the very least we're still FBS at that point and I do believe going to the Sun Belt would be easier having been in the WAC than an FCS move-up (if that is even possible by then).

Anyone that thinks WVU is wrong for leaving for the Big-12 is simply not living in the reality that is modern day college football. I am not saying I agree with it, but aligning yourself with the highest bidder is a means of survival if nothing else. The Big East is horrible and they, along with the ACC, will be the losers sitting on the sidelines when the big four start their four team playoff and reap the rewards of the TV money that comes with it.. Why do you think FSU is thinking about jumping ship and leaving the ACC for the Big 12? They can see the writing on the wall...the big four will be the only relevant conferences and the Big East and ACC will continue to be second tier with great basketball but a weak football product.
By 4everfsu
Registration Days Posts
#393225
Liberty4Life wrote:Give it up, guys. Just face it, no one wants us.
+1
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By BJWilliams
Registration Days Posts
#393226
Liberty4Life wrote:Give it up, guys. Just face it, no one wants us.
And you know that how? Its not like you are hangin around JB's office or anybody who is workin on this
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By jbock13
Registration Days Posts
#393229
logic wrote:
jbock13 wrote:Common sense doesn't work on this thread Haize. Just give it up.

Common sense that thinks staying in a Big South Conference that could lose Stony Brook and Coastal is better than any FBS conference? Common sense that thinks West Virginia leaving the 6th best football conference for one of the new "big four" that will ultimately break away and form an upper level FBS league with a four team playoff is a bad thing?

He could make a compelling argument that FBS independent if the WAC folds would be tough, and I would agree. At the very least we're still FBS at that point and I do believe going to the Sun Belt would be easier having been in the WAC than an FCS move-up (if that is even possible by then).

Anyone that thinks WVU is wrong for leaving for the Big-12 is simply not living in the reality that is modern day college football. I am not saying I agree with it, but aligning yourself with the highest bidder is a means of survival if nothing else. The Big East is horrible and they, along with the ACC, will be the losers sitting on the sidelines when the big four start their four team playoff and reap the rewards of the TV money that comes with it.. Why do you think FSU is thinking about jumping ship and leaving the ACC for the Big 12? They can see the writing on the wall...the big four will be the only relevant conferences and the Big East and ACC will continue to be second tier with great basketball but a weak football product.
I would complain that you stuck words in my mouth, but instead you stuck three whole paragraphs. Besides, WVU is my 2'nd favorite team so I know. Thanks. And for one thing, I never said I was happy being in the Big South. But that's where we're stuck right now. JB and JLF are doing the best they can. Take a breath and relax.
By phoenix
Registration Days Posts
#393233
I have to agree with Haize -- FBS Indie is wrong for LU until we build a tradition of having a strong football team, and until we give recruits a reason to come in spite of not having a bowl guarantee. That's what Notre Dame and BYU have done. Liberty is not yet the go-to school for evangelicals. When that happens, being an independent at the FBS level becomes a little more feasible. I still don't like it necessarily, but it becomes doable.
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By NotAJerry
Registration Days Posts
#393235
TallyW wrote:The law of numbers eventually begin to shift in our favor. As of now whenever Liberty is playing near my home (previously VaBeach, now Baltimore) I receive notice of the upcoming game. With LUOnline this type of marketing will only and especially increase.
This is something I've noticed as well. I've been getting an alumni email, sometimes and alumni phone call, and then a current student email when I started grad school about pretty much every LU event in the DC area. This is one of the strongest parts of LU marketing.
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By NotAJerry
Registration Days Posts
#393237
FBS Independent wouldn't happen for a few years, and how would a schedule littered with Army, Navy, FAU, Bowling Green, etc. be worse than playing the pathetic Big South schedule?

We have to move up to FBS if the WAC-East deal is offered. There's absolutely no legitimate reason to stay in a horrible conference that is holding back our major programs. Staying in the Big South, when there's a legitimate offer from an FBS conference, is the living embodiment of Einstein's definition of insanity. The Big South is a joke. We have to get out at the first chance.

The money from LUO is going to keep getting bigger, the on campus enrollment is going to essentially double in 5 years once the campus expansion is complete, and there will be no change in the sports program if we're still spinning our wheels in a bad FCS conference. This move has to be made.

Throw in what TallyW has said about the larger picture of the purpose of the school, and it's a head in the sand type of move to stay where we are and hope for something better at some undetermined point down the line.
Last edited by NotAJerry on June 9th, 2012, 8:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#393238
phoenix wrote:I have to agree with Haize -- FBS Indie is wrong for LU until we build a tradition of having a strong football team, and until we give recruits a reason to come in spite of not having a bowl guarantee. That's what Notre Dame and BYU have done. Liberty is not yet the go-to school for evangelicals. When that happens, being an independent at the FBS level becomes a little more feasible. I still don't like it necessarily, but it becomes doable.
Faith has been restored! Some actually READ my posts and realize I was mainly talking about Independent status. I also brought up that we shouldn't necessarily jump at the first offer. Apparently that makes me less then compotent! I even stated which Conferences would be good fits, but apparently people are blinded by their Pre conceived notions to see through anything that does not fit their thinking.

logic, I won't hijack this thread but there are people much more in the know then I who feel the WVU move was I'll conceived. Start a thread if you want to discuss.

JBock - I guess once you are labeled a hater people try to fit your statements to fit their model.
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By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#393240
NAJ - Navy is moving to the Big East? FAU is Sun Belt. Bowling Green is in the MAC. So that leaves Army as the only Independent on your list.

I will caution that there is a ceiling to LUO, it's probably pretty high, but you can't count on continued growth at this level for ever. ( that's my Bad Mood post! :D )
By rogers3
Registration Days Posts
#393246
NAJ- I don't think anyone here thinks the WAC-E would be a bad move. It is the WAC for all sports without travel partners and a ~ 1500 mi trip to our closest Olympic sports competition that would make the decision less than beneficial. I would think it would end up putting us in a situation that could actually do some damage to our programs... unless Freedom Aviation bought a few late model B717s for transportation and cut us a lot of slack on upkeep and fuel.
By logic
#393250
Options -

1. CUSA/MAC/SBC - They do not want us
2. WAC - long shot but possible
3. Stay in Big South


Staying in the Big South with a possible Stony Brook and CCU defection would in my humble (or not so humble) opinion would be the worst possible decision, especially facing another possible moratorium that could last any number of years. While FBS may be a risk, I believe it is one worth taking considering the alternative and for all the points that Tally made.

WAC with an eastern division seems like a path we could all agree on. Let's make it happen.
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By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#393254
logic wrote:Options -

1. CUSA/MAC/SBC - They do not want us
2. WAC - long shot but possible
3. Stay in Big South


Staying in the Big South with a possible Stony Brook and CCU defection would in my humble (or not so humble) opinion would be the worst possible decision, especially facing another possible moratorium that could last any number of years. While FBS may be a risk, I believe it is one worth taking considering the alternative and for all the points that Tally made.

WAC with an eastern division seems like a path we could all agree on. Let's make it happen.
So what do you recommend we do if the WAC doesn't happen?
By logic
#393257
Do our best to beat Coastal and Stoney Brook into the Colonial (if they'll take us). I just don't see how we could possibly stay in the Big South if the aforementioned teams leave. Would the league even be able to sponsor football?
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By Sly Fox
Registration Days Posts
#393258
Without further movement higher up the food chain, we appear to be locked into the WAC as our only current option.

Of course, times could change dramatically in the coming months. If we are already beginning the FBS transition thanks to the WAC, we would be considerably more attractive to other FBS leagues. And I don't believe the WAC is in any position to place high exit fees for potential new members.

Yes, FBS Independence is not particularly appealing for us. But the small risk that we could be pushed into it does not offer enough reason to pass on the possibility as it arrives.

For the record, I have no inside information in regard to what is happening right now. I am purely being speculative. While I am not convinced anything significant has to come out of the meetings in Denver, even some statements on where they stand would help clarify things for us moving forward.
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By NotAJerry
Registration Days Posts
#393261
Purple Haize wrote:NAJ - Navy is moving to the Big East? FAU is Sun Belt. Bowling Green is in the MAC. So that leaves Army as the only Independent on your list.
And they wouldn't play an independent in an OOC game for them? There really wouldn't be much of a challenge getting a 12 game schedule each year, especially since 1 or 2 would be FCS teams. If we did the WAC-East thing, and 4-5 years down the line had to go independent, we would likely still be new enough to the level that we would still be considered an easy win. Then you've got the likelihood that we wouldn't be the only team that stayed as a FBS independent with the WAC demise, giving a few more scheduling options.

If the WAC makes the offer, and we don't have another impending/eminent offer, then we absolutely must accept it and figure out the rest later. Remaining FCS, with an FBS offer, is not an acceptable choice.
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By NotAJerry
Registration Days Posts
#393262
Purple Haize wrote:
logic wrote:Options -

1. CUSA/MAC/SBC - They do not want us
2. WAC - long shot but possible
3. Stay in Big South


Staying in the Big South with a possible Stony Brook and CCU defection would in my humble (or not so humble) opinion would be the worst possible decision, especially facing another possible moratorium that could last any number of years. While FBS may be a risk, I believe it is one worth taking considering the alternative and for all the points that Tally made.

WAC with an eastern division seems like a path we could all agree on. Let's make it happen.
So what do you recommend we do if the WAC doesn't happen?
Beg the CAA or SoCon to let us in. Remaining in the Big South is not an acceptable fate if there is any other option available.
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By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#393266
Please pleases please let us in your conference. Honest CAA. We won't leave at the first chance we get to move up we cross our hearts and pinky promise. :roll:
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By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#393280
logic wrote:WAC or bust.
So if we don't make the WAC just drop out of the BSC and become an FCS Independent? :shock: :roll:
By logic
#393283
Might as well be an independent at that point if the SB and CCU leave and the BSC consists of

1. Liberty
2. Gardner-Webb
3. VMI
4. Presby
5. CSU

Did I miss anyone? Campbell? Aren't they non-scholarship? I just don't see how we could remain anything close to respected/relevant in this type of Big South.
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