[Purple Haize]

You asked for an example. He gave you one

[mlschubert]

The issue of whether to push the NCAA has nothing to do with entitlement. Private schools, historically, struggle to move up by way of invitation. Are we entitled? No .. Neither are we very likely to get an invite (at least based on history if there are any other public school options). However, I suspect it would be difficult for the NCAA to defend choosing which rules to enforce. We are a much more attractive candidate if the NCAA chooses to enforce the rules. In the absence of that would they choose to block our only likely path forward (independence) while continuing to turn a blind eye to other membership rules? I'm not necessarily a suit proponent, but I don't think we should dismiss petitioning the NCAA to either enforce the rules consistently or allow for moving up as an independent. Whether we agree or not, I'm unsure why this appears to be such an offensive position.

[flameshaw]

The 'Fan Quotent' has gotten better over the years. I remember people pitching a fit when we started getting stricter about people actually PAYING for tickets. Granted,mother on field product wasn't worth much, but people, even within the Department, were incredulous that we would make people pay instead of just handing out tickets. Now people are paying to join the Flames a Club just to buy certain season tickets
The fans have come a long way, there is a way to go to get to the average FBS schools but we are getting there. We certainly are up there in terms of FCS schools. IMO, as that continues the old school sense of entitlement that SJ accurately talks about will dissipate

Really? Not to be argumentative but the LU fans have done things that I have never imagined and go waaaaaay beyond what the average FBS schools do. A couple of examples:

1. A few years ago we play JMU and the student section is almost full an hour before the game in the pouring rain.
2. Last year at Villanova, we have as many/more fans there that they do. Bring 25+ buses of kids up there, again in the pouring rain and very cold I might add.
3. 1984? We play Campbell with our first chance to go to the playoffs in MBB. Almost 3K students drive to Charleston for the game. No one sat down for the whole game. There weren't 50 people there from Campbell and they had a journey that was 2-3 hours shorter than from L'burg.
4, We historically travel very well to away games. Much better than the average FBS school.

There are several more, but those are highlights off the top of my head.

Now as far as sophisticated/knowledgeable fans that might be arguable, but I don't see much difference than when I attend NSCU events. I certainly wouldn't call them ignorant. Don't know about paying for tickets. I have always paid for my tickets going back to the early 80's and have been a Flame's Club member back when it was the Eagle Club, than The Talon Club, etc. Maybe some people/staff expect they shouldn't have to pay, but I don't understand why. We don't have some of the perks they do at major universities, but do quite well for FBS. Our buffet and food before and during the football games are top shelf. Much better than buffets I have had in the club lounges at major league baseball, football and hockey games.
The students do a very poor job of staying for the 2nd half of football games, but that is getting better.
I believe we are doing pretty good. We continue to improve in most areas. We have a lot to be thankful for, especially for such a young university.

[Yacht Rock]

You asked for an example. He gave you one

But the example doesn't really apply. It would make a huge leap in logic to assume that...

A. Most of our fans are in favor of going independent

and

B. Suggesting a move to independent makes a fan ignorant

It's a different perspective but I wouldn't be so arrogant to say that the other person is ignorant.

My point is, there seems to be some huge generalizations and assumptions made here combined with a lack of humility.

[Purple Haize]

The 'Fan Quotent' has gotten better over the years. I remember people pitching a fit when we started getting stricter about people actually PAYING for tickets. Granted,mother on field product wasn't worth much, but people, even within the Department, were incredulous that we would make people pay instead of just handing out tickets. Now people are paying to join the Flames a Club just to buy certain season tickets
The fans have come a long way, there is a way to go to get to the average FBS schools but we are getting there. We certainly are up there in terms of FCS schools. IMO, as that continues the old school sense of entitlement that SJ accurately talks about will dissipate

Really? Not to be argumentative but the LU fans have done things that I have never imagined and go waaaaaay beyond what the average FBS schools do. A couple of examples:

1. A few years ago we play JMU and the student section is almost full an hour before the game in the pouring rain.
2. Last year at Villanova, we have as many/more fans there that they do. Bring 25+ buses of kids up there, again in the pouring rain and very cold I might add.
3. 1984? We play Campbell with our first chance to go to the playoffs in MBB. Almost 3K students drive to Charleston for the game. No one sat down for the whole game. There weren't 50 people there from Campbell and they had a journey that was 2-3 hours shorter than from L'burg.
4, We historically travel very well to away games. Much better than the average FBS school.

There are several more, but those are highlights off the top of my head.

Now as far as sophisticated/knowledgeable fans that might be arguable, but I don't see much difference than when I attend NSCU events. I certainly wouldn't call them ignorant. Don't know about paying for tickets. I have always paid for my tickets going back to the early 80's and have been a Flame's Club member back when it was the Eagle Club, than The Talon Club, etc. Maybe some people/staff expect they shouldn't have to pay, but I don't understand why. We don't have some of the perks they do at major universities, but do quite well for FBS. Our buffet and food before and during the football games are top shelf. Much better than buffets I have had in the club lounges at major league baseball, football and hockey games.
The students do a very poor job of staying for the 2nd half of football games, but that is getting better.
I believe we are doing pretty good. We continue to improve in most areas. We have a lot to be thankful for, especially for such a young university.

I agree we do travel well, especially for big games. Arguably the best in FCS. And that takes care of most of your points
All sorts of fans hang out in the rain before a game. Would they have done the same if we were playing Presby and not JMU? Your second to last sentence answers that.

[SuperJon]

The dictionary definition of ignorant is "lacking knowledge or awareness in general; uneducated or unsophisticated." Continually suggesting something that is not allowable under the rules shows a lack of knowledge or awareness.

Ignorant doesn't mean our fans are stupid. It just means they haven't been educated in the ins and outs of how things work. Our fans are very passionate as flameshaw pointed out. They're just not the most knowledgable group in the world. But as he said, things are getting better. The band is playing less on offense. Most fans realize they shouldn't cheer when we have the ball and it's 3rd and 2. That wasn't the case 7-8 years ago.

We are a very young school. Many of our fans have never followed college athletics before getting here. It takes time - and tradition - for a fan base to grow up.

[Yacht Rock]

You're still making a big assumption.

1. A majority of fans want to go independent.

2. Rules can never change.

And even if they don't know NCAA rules, that doesn't make them an "ignorant fan." They might be ignorant of that rule.

Because you aren't aware of every civil code of the town you live in I'm not going to call you an ignorant citizen. It doesn't and shouldn't define you.

Now, the other examples you used. Cheering at the wrong point of the game, etc. Yeah, those are good examples of fans that may not know the game. However, I can say I haven't seen that in my time here. How many home games have you been to in the last few years?

[SumItUp]

In all honesty jon I feel like the way you go about these kind of things you place yourself higher than the rest of liberty fans. I get it liberty as a whole does things that annoy you. Me too and I have been around long enough to voice those frustrations on this board but it's always the same tune. Liberty fans are terrible and you are somehow better. I don't get it.

Now granted I may be getting more annoyed by it because of recent events and the real feeling we will be stuck FCS for a long, long time but your "I am not like the rest of them" act had gotten a bit old today.

You are a liberty alum and like it or not by continually talking down about liberty fans wherever you go you do more harm then good.

Just my 2 cents. I love your insight most of the times but it just has been grinding on my nerves lately.

Everything you said is 100% true.

Edit to add: I do consider myself to be "higher" than the average Liberty fan. For the most part, our fan base is a very ignorant fan base. That doesn't mean they're not passionate or that they aren't enthusiastic. It means that, more often than not, our fans don't know how the process works. They were indoctrinated to the Liberty bubble and have stayed there ever since. Not only were they in the Liberty bubble, but a large portion of our fan base comes from Christian school and home school backgrounds and really have no clue how public schools - especially public universities - operate.

[SuperJon]

I didn't say I was proud of it. Haha.

[SuperJon]

Because you aren't aware of every civil code of the town you live in I'm not going to call you an ignorant citizen. It doesn't and shouldn't define you.

But the fact is, I'm an ignorant citizen in the realm of civil law. I've said in the WDBJ thread that I don't know/understand all the gun laws. I'm ignorant in that realm. But, like you said, that's not the definition of who I am. Our fans may be ignorant on who is in our conference, what it takes to make the playoffs, how the realignment process works, if we're actually Division I, and a number of other issues, but they're also incredibly passionate, travel well, and truly care about the school.

Our administration has done a great job educating students on our traditions over the last 6-7 years. When 90% of your fanbase grows up either not caring about collegiate sports or following another team, it only makes sense that they are ignorant on Liberty related issues.

Lastly, this isn't a Liberty only problem. Coastal's fans by and large are ignorant of their program. Every team in the Big South falls into that category. The schools we want to be like athletically (App State, Georgia Southern, ODU, etc) have very passionate fan bases who are also knowledgable. We're getting there, but by and large, we aren't there yet.

And yes, my tone/tact in talking about this makes me come across as a jerk. I do better about it at times and completely blow it at times. Ask people who have been around since 06. They've seen the complete jack*** side of me and the side that's actually grown up a little bit. The past couple days I've been annoyed by the response so I went to my natural arrogant sarcasm and spoke from that point of view. Like I joked in the post above this one, I'm not proud of going to that place but it happened and I'm not going to back track from it. I'll apologize for that - and I do apologize for it - but I won't act like it didn't happen.

So yeah, my word choice and tone was off. I'm sorry for that.

[thepostman]

Don't worry Jon I still like you. I am sure that just made your day!!!

[rmiller1959]

I'm really not sure why Lehigh cares, but they aren't too happy about Coastal's elevation to the FBS:

http://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.co ... ss-of.html

[SuperJon]

Don't worry Jon I still like you. I am sure that just made your day!!!

Yep. I couldn't sleep because I was worried that eight years of knowing each other could've been blown on one day of posting on FlameFans.

[thepostman]

I knew it!!!

Relieved I said something I wouldn't want it to effect the home life!

[LUDad]

I'm really not sure why Lehigh cares, but they aren't too happy about Coastal's elevation to the FBS:

http://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.co ... ss-of.html

Hey, I like that guy. Are you sure he didn't go to Liberty? The piece makes it apparent without say so that the Sunbelt mentality is "anybody but Liberty"

[ATrain]

For your reading pleasure:

http://interactives.dallasnews.com/2015 ... niversary/

Synopsis: when the SWC died, A&M was eyeing the SEC and Texas the PAC-10. Baylor grads were the Governor and Lt Governor (in Texas, the Lt Governor actually has more political might than the Governor), and essentially it was Baylor, Tech, A&M and Texas were going to be a package deal. Thus that's how the Big12 got to be the Big12 when those four schools went to the Big Eight. The commissioner of the SWC: Kyle Kallander.

[Schfourteenteen]

For your reading pleasure:

http://interactives.dallasnews.com/2015 ... niversary/

Synopsis: when the SWC died, A&M was eyeing the SEC and Texas the PAC-10. Baylor grads were the Governor and Lt Governor (in Texas, the Lt Governor actually has more political might than the Governor), and essentially it was Baylor, Tech, A&M and Texas were going to be a package deal. Thus that's how the Big12 got to be the Big12 when those four schools went to the Big Eight. The commissioner of the SWC: Kyle Kallander.

Instead, Tech, Texas, Baylor, TCU and Rice were declared co-champions with 4-3 conference records,

Heh.

[jimflamesfan]

I really hope the Big South adds Hampton University.

Pretty good football and baskeball. Great recruiting area.

A really nice beach that no one seems to know about in Buckroe Beach.

They also have built a neat outdoor mall like Short Pump called Penninsula town Center.

I hope the Big South adds them for all sports. I think they would be willing to come if courted.

[adam42381]

What makes you think they'd leave the MEAC and all their fellow HBCUs?

[Chris Lang]

More likely than you think. At least that's what a little birdie told me.

[olldflame]

What makes you think they'd leave the MEAC and all their fellow HBCUs?

Because the MEAC has decided to send their champion to a trumped up ¨classic¨ against the winner of the SWAC instead of the FCS playoffs. Hampton, Delaware St. and one or 2 more members don´t like it and may be looking to move on. I would LOVE having Hampton in the BSC. Delaware St.? Meh.

[Purple Haize]

What makes you think they'd leave the MEAC and all their fellow HBCUs?

Because the MEAC has decided to send their champion to a trumped up ¨classic¨ against the winner of the SWAC instead of the FCS playoffs. Hampton, Delaware St. and one or 2 more members don´t like it and may be looking to move on. I would LOVE having Hampton in the BSC. Delaware St.? Meh.

Hampton would be a huge get. Of course if their intentions are made public we won't be their only suitors

[olldflame]

What makes you think they'd leave the MEAC and all their fellow HBCUs?

Because the MEAC has decided to send their champion to a trumped up ¨classic¨ against the winner of the SWAC instead of the FCS playoffs. Hampton, Delaware St. and one or 2 more members don´t like it and may be looking to move on. I would LOVE having Hampton in the BSC. Delaware St.? Meh.

Hampton would be a huge get. Of course if their intentions are made public we won't be their only suitors

No doubt. I would think the SoCon and possibly the CAA would be interested.

[flameshaw]

What makes you think they'd leave the MEAC and all their fellow HBCUs?

Because the MEAC has decided to send their champion to a trumped up ¨classic¨ against the winner of the SWAC instead of the FCS playoffs. Hampton, Delaware St. and one or 2 more members don´t like it and may be looking to move on. I would LOVE having Hampton in the BSC. Delaware St.? Meh.

Hampton would be a huge get. Of course if their intentions are made public we won't be their only suitors

And if they don't make their intentions public, they may be stuck in the MEAC with no suitors.

[Purple Haize]

Or they could just work back channels