[Sly Fox]

Hey H-burg, baldspot or PastorZack:

What is reaction from the Mennonite community to Floyd Landis' incredible success at the Tour de France? Knowing their penchant to avoid publicity I am curious if they are taking pride in his success or if they are still writing him off as worldly.

[Baldspot]

The locals are going nuts though I don't know how the Mennonite's are taking the publicity. Floyd swore off his religion long ago and they generally don't talk to the media types. The Mennonite's have a lot more contact with the outside world, however, then the Amish but they do not go for anything flashy. For instance, they may own a bicycle but they would paint the chrome black. Their religion is strictly relying on good works. Landis started riding bikes because his family did not own a car. When he swore off his religion, he used his bike riding abilities as his ticket. Interesting enough for Sly, Floyd moved to So Calif to train and eventually married into a Mexican family. I've read where his parent's originally shunned their wayward son but apparently have since reconciled. The following is an except from the Washington Post.


"Landis long ago reconciled with his parents. In 2004 they took their first trip overseas to witness the peloton racing up a peak in the Pyrenees. There the route was clotted with screaming, liquored-up, flag-draped Basques, who had poured in from Spain by the busload. Amid this rowdiness, clustered together in their high-necked frocks and crisp white bonnets, sat Landis's mother, Arlene, and three of his sisters, holding up a hand-painted banner. On it was the modest assertion: "We Support Floyd Landis." "I feel like what he's doing is a very wholesome thing," says Arlene. "He's made some different choices, but he doesn't live selfishly. I know he's a very caring person. . . . You just follow him with prayers. You know someone bigger is going to take care of him.""

Personally I'm glad for any local guy that can stick it to the French (and I am French). The entire article referenced above:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 01109.html

[Sly Fox]

Thanks for the insight. Since both you and PastorZack are right there amongst such a large community I was honestly curious how it was being received.

As for Floyd, while he has left the Mennonite faith he is always quick during interviews to talk about how important his upbringing was to making him driven enough to have this type of success. Everytime his parents put obstacles in front of him to discourgae him, it only made him more passionate about his riding.

Mennonites are an interesting lot in general. But they are certainly about to get quite a bit of attention.

As for Floyd, I am a big fan. Working in Austin covering Lance for so many years I developed an appreciation for the Tour whether I wanted to or not. And what he accomplished with that arthritic hip and with that mindboggling 17th stage makes his effort nearly as astonishing as what Lance did the last seven years in my eyes.

[A.G.]

Most definitely an impressive display of horse power.

[bigsmooth]

this dude is a true freak! congrats to him and the continued american dominance.

[Baldspot]

Floyd's parents missed the last stage because they were at church. Most of the Mennonite school's in my area are one room buildings with two outhouses, male and female, sitting outside. If the parent's had been home, they still would not have been able to see him because they do not own a TV. After church they apparently did go to a house that had a TV so they could see some highlights.

[01LUGrad]

Well, they missed quite a show! A lot of people talked about how the talent in this Tour was watered down due to the pre-race exit of many of the favorites (Basso and Ulric to name a couple), but I don't think you can take anything away from Floyd. His performance was incredible. I do wonder what the menonites think of his green and yellow lycra though!

[01LUGrad]

Breaking news....Floyd tested positive for high levels of testosterone during the 17th stage of the Tour (his break-away win). No word yet on the consequences, but it is probably safe to assume he will be stripped of his title. That is REALLY dissapointing!

[SuperJon]

I didn't say it on here, but I've told people there's no way he did this without some type of performance enhancing drug. If any other person in the world made the comeback he did, the American media would be going crazy with accusations. Had he not had a messed up hip the American media would've been going crazy against him. It was a feel good story, that's why they didn't.

[Libertine]

I'm holding out judgement here for several reasons.
1. The testing process used in the Tour de France is flawed. It can implicate that a rider is using a banned substance but it cannot prove it.
2. The head of the World Anti-Doping Agency proved himself in the Lance Armstrong case to be virulently anti-American.
3. The fact that public news of a positive hit on Landis' A sample came out before the B sample test could even be tested is in itself a violation of protocol.
4. During activity at higher altitudes, testosterone levels in the body naturally increase.
5. Prior to after Stage 17, Landis had passed all other tests that we know about. All supplements/substances have some sort of side effect and, particularly in race like the Tour de France where everything about both the bike and rider are so fine-tuned, it would be the height of stupidity to suddenly start taking something in the middle of the race. If Sample B also comes back w/ unexplainable testosterone levels then that means he was doping all along and hadn't been caught (in which case, how do we know who wasn't doping?) or he took a dead man's gamble when he fell to 11th place.

[SuperJon]

Riders got kicked out of the Tour before it started on suspicion they were doping.

[Libertine]

Riders got kicked out of the Tour before it started on suspicion they were doping.

Yes, but that suspicion was based on their contact with a Spanish doctor at the center of a doping investigation. Doping wasn't proven by any test nor can it be under the existing procedures. That's why you didn't see any riders actually banned for life which is supposed to be the general punishment for doping. The testing process itself is so flawed and the governing body is unstable enough that simple conjecture backed up by test results that show anything slightly anomalous, even a naturally occurring anything, is enough to get you in trouble.
I'm also not saying that Landis isn't doping. He could have fooled the tests and the rest of the world up until this point. All I'm saying is that we can't necessarily trust that he was doping just because a preliminary test from a WADA lab says he had some extra testosterone in his body.

[jcmanson]

here is espn's article on the saga

http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/columns/story?id=2531597

[LUconn]

question: after falling behind, how on earth would testosterone help him? I could see him using that to train and to build muscle mass but how on earth could it give him that much more endurance so quickly?

[PeterParker]

I second Libertine and LuConn...the body is a fickle machine and the testing process is pretty flawed especially when the ones administering have not even tried to hide their contempt for the American riders. If you've read the saga over the 7 years of Lance's dominance, that guy was the most tested guys in all of sports. And even after stating that he was not going to ride this year, they came after him again almost a year after his last Tour ride to tank his credibility. Sometimes when one is looking to find something, one can make mistakes trying to make the pieces fit.

As far as Landis, he was tested everyday, especially after earning his first yellow jersey. Further, if he were to take anything to aid an incredible ride like that it would have been in the EPO genre to aid his blood/oxygen ratio in order to create an superenvironment in the body to help the blood essentially break down the lactic acid buildup and remove it from the working muscles more quickly. I'm in the camp, that steroids injected in the morning, in a one time deal, doesn't make sense why one would do that especially knowing that they are going to accost you and test you before you can even get off the bike.

Having said that, I'll repeat what I've told friends before, the chances are most likely an error in the test, remember their is a lot of potential for human error (or sinister motives) in the chain link between the rider producing the sample and it getting tested. However, if it is actually true, with impartial testing from othernuetral international organizations to backup the French claims, then it is either an unfortunate occurrence with an anomaly with his body chemistry, he mistakenly consumed something that was "spiked" or he was the most foolish person in the world to think he would get away with something after the wipeout of riders earlier in the tour and the hawkey posturing of the tour organizers.

[01LUGrad]

I agree wholeheartedly with the Landis supporters...my above comment was simply breaking the news. Why would anyone even try to do something dumb (especially if pumping more testosterone into the body wouldn't help) knowing that he would be tested as soon as he got off his bike with a stage win (stage 17)? My theory is that the French are just jealous because their bodies don't produce testosterone.

[PAmedic]

expert thinks Landis result 'doesn't add up'Associated Press

Tour de France champion Floyd Landis' results on a urine test that spots elevated levels of performance-enhancing testosterone are a mystery and "don't add up," a leading doping expert said Thursday.

Landis' team revealed Thursday that his urine sample last week showed "an unusual level of testosterone/epitestosterone."

Testosterone creams, pills and injections can build muscle and strength and improve recovery time after exertion when used over a period of several weeks, according to Dr. Gary Wadler, a member of the World Anti-Doping Agency and a spokesman for the American College of Sports Medicine.

But if Landis had been a user, earlier urine tests during the Tour would have been affected, too, Wadler said. Landis' first reported abnormal result was last Thursday, after his amazing come-from-behind performance in stage 17 of the race.



One-time use of steroids could result in an abnormal test, but it would have no effect on performance and could not account for Landis' astounding feat Thursday, "so something's missing here," Wadler said. "It just doesn't add up."

The test detects both testosterone and a related steroid called epitestosterone, which is not performance-enhancing. Both are produced by the body and are also made in synthetic form.

The usual ratio for both substances is about 1:1 or 2:1, Wadler said.

Suspicions for improper steroid use arise when the ratio climbs above 4 parts testosterone over 1 part epitestosterone, Wadler said. Officials have not said what ratio Landis' test showed.

Athletes who use performance-enhancing anabolic steroids often also take synthetic epitestosterone to equalize the ratio, said Charles Yesalis, a recently retired Pennsylvania State University professor and doping expert.

There is no medical use for synthetic epitestosterone; it is used "to cheat drug tests," Yesalis said.

Some men have naturally occurring high levels of testosterone and/or epitestosterone, but there is a sophisticated lab test called a carbon isotope ratio test that is often used to detect synthetic forms.

Alcohol can influence testosterone-epitestosterone levels, but more often in women than in men and it would be unlikely to have a huge effect, Wadler said.

Landis said in an interview during the Tour de France that he has had injections of cortisone, a medically used steroid drug to treat pain from a degenerating arthritic hip, but doctors said that would not affect his test results.

Corticosteroids "have zero impact" on the testosterone-epitestosterone test, Wadler said.

The typical procedure for urine-testing of athletes involves taking two samples at the same time and bottling them separately. The "A" sample is tested first, and if it is normal the "B" sample is discarded. If the "A" sample shows elevated testosterone levels, the "B" sample is tested, and its results are used to confirm use of a banned substance, Wadler said.

The same "B" sample is also often subjected to the carbon isotope test, said Dr. Don Catlin, director of a World Anti-Doping Association-accredited Olympic lab at UCLA.

Landis' Phonak team suspended him pending results of the backup "B" sample.