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Moderators: jcmanson, Sly Fox, BuryYourDuke

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By R i
Registration Days Posts
#526428
That article states that the player that Mccaw allegedly texted Briles about, was arrested. I was wrong in that earlier. Still do not think that text is super incriminating for the large cover up.

Also the article says that Baylor asked Mccaw to resign, that is much different that what Jr said when he did his investigation.
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By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#526429
R i wrote:That article states that the player that Mccaw allegedly texted Briles about, was arrested. I was wrong in that earlier. Still do not think that text is super incriminating for the large cover up.

Also the article says that Baylor asked Mccaw to resign, that is much different that what Jr said when he did his investigation.
I dunno. Getting arrested actually takes it up another level in my book.
As for the resignation I think that's a semantics thing. It was most likely a mutual decision but legally framed in such a way as to benefit McCaw for trying to 'take one for the team '
#526430
R i wrote:In a text Mccaw said" that would be great if they kept it quiet ".

In this text, the "they" refers to the Wacco PD , or that is how it is being reported, and the "it" refers to an assault allegation that no charges were going to be filed.

So Mccaw did not want the Police department to make a public statement about an allegation when there was no arrest made. Mccaw had no influence in the PD decision, and neither did Briles it appears. Yes it looks shady in the way that it is being reported, but if this is actually exactly how it went down, how would you have preferred Mccaw to respond in this specific text message? " Art, I am sorry to hear that a player has allegedly assaulted another individual, I understand that there are no arrests going to be made, but if the Wacco PD could please talk with the media about this and give our program and university a black eye, that would be great"

I am no Mccaw apologist, I just do not feel this text message, even if it happened exactly the way it is being reported is super incriminating and terms for termination.

I do not want to see LU sell their soul to win championships, as many have alluded to the Mccaw hiring as being such, but I also think this story is not a strong case that Mccaw was definitely a part of a large cover up.
Absolutely agree. There are a few things to notice with what is and ISN'T happening.

Why hasn't McCaw been individually targeted by any lawsuits?

I think the reason is because no attorney has found enough evidence to think bringing a case is worth while. Litigation is so easy these days, if enough evidence existed, it would be used. The lack of a single targeted lawsuit against McCaw tells me a lot.

There is a range of attitudes that McCaw could have taken at Baylor concerning player behavior. The range goes from ignorant bystander, passive bystander, active bystander, active participant.

Jerry presented us with Ignorant Bystander. It's clear Art was an active participant. I think it remains to be seen where McCaw truly falls on that range. If he only knew of a few situations like the one where he showed thanks for WPD keeping it quiet, I would say that falls into passive bystander. If it comes out that he was the one throwing his influence around to sway outcomes of a few limited situations(alcohol use, loud noise complaints, etc.), I think he falls into active bystander. However, if he sought to sweep any violent crimes under the rug, grill him.
By Footballfan
Posts
#526431
Maybe a new athletic director.....

I thought Ian McCaw resigned own his own? This article states: "Athletic director Ian McCaw was asked to resign." Neither Ian McCaw, Liberty, Art Briles, nor their attorneys have commented since this news broke yesterday.

Art Briles dropped his wrongful termination lawsuit a day before all this new information was released by Baylor. Wonder how or if the NCAA will react? Some are calling for the Death Penalty for the Baylor football team. Seems Baylor is trying to mitigate its responsibility and liability in future lawsuits even if it means more penalties from the NCAA.

Does anyone still believe Art Briles will coach again?

Man, this does not look good!!!

Click Here
User avatar
By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#526438
Class of 20Something wrote:
R i wrote:In a text Mccaw said" that would be great if they kept it quiet ".

In this text, the "they" refers to the Wacco PD , or that is how it is being reported, and the "it" refers to an assault allegation that no charges were going to be filed.

So Mccaw did not want the Police department to make a public statement about an allegation when there was no arrest made. Mccaw had no influence in the PD decision, and neither did Briles it appears. Yes it looks shady in the way that it is being reported, but if this is actually exactly how it went down, how would you have preferred Mccaw to respond in this specific text message? " Art, I am sorry to hear that a player has allegedly assaulted another individual, I understand that there are no arrests going to be made, but if the Wacco PD could please talk with the media about this and give our program and university a black eye, that would be great"

I am no Mccaw apologist, I just do not feel this text message, even if it happened exactly the way it is being reported is super incriminating and terms for termination.

I do not want to see LU sell their soul to win championships, as many have alluded to the Mccaw hiring as being such, but I also think this story is not a strong case that Mccaw was definitely a part of a large cover up.
Absolutely agree. There are a few things to notice with what is and ISN'T happening.

Why hasn't McCaw been individually targeted by any lawsuits?

I think the reason is because no attorney has found enough evidence to think bringing a case is worth while. Litigation is so easy these days, if enough evidence existed, it would be used. The lack of a single targeted lawsuit against McCaw tells me a lot.

There is a range of attitudes that McCaw could have taken at Baylor concerning player behavior. The range goes from ignorant bystander, passive bystander, active bystander, active participant.

Jerry presented us with Ignorant Bystander. It's clear Art was an active participant. I think it remains to be seen where McCaw truly falls on that range. If he only knew of a few situations like the one where he showed thanks for WPD keeping it quiet, I would say that falls into passive bystander. If it comes out that he was the one throwing his influence around to sway outcomes of a few limited situations(alcohol use, loud noise complaints, etc.), I think he falls into active bystander. However, if he sought to sweep any violent crimes under the rug, grill him.
Isn't he under investigation with the Title IX folks? Is he named as a co defendant in any of the lawsuits? I haven't really kept up
#526441
Isn't he under investigation with the Title IX folks? Is he named as a co defendant in any of the lawsuits? I haven't really kept up

He was dismissed from the Pepper Hamilton suit and isn't named at all in Doe v Baylor(the gang rape case).
User avatar
By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#526445
Class of 20Something wrote:
Isn't he under investigation with the Title IX folks? Is he named as a co defendant in any of the lawsuits? I haven't really kept up

He was dismissed from the Pepper Hamilton suit and isn't named at all in Doe v Baylor(the gang rape case).
Thank you. So does that mean he has been cleared of everything?
User avatar
By Sly Fox
Registration Days Posts
#526447
Being legally cleared is not the same as being tarnished by proximity. Let me echo that everyone I talk to in Waco tells me they believe McCaw was a good man who was unaware of what was occurring behind his back. You can certainly fault him for lack of appropriate oversight. But right now he has not been directly implicated in any cover-up. The text message in the DMN story can be interpreted many different ways. But just knowing how the system works, I am inclined to follow Ri's logic.

Those looking to diminish what occurred at Baylor under McCaw are uninformed. Setting aside the football mess, he took over the BU Athletic Department in the wake of what was arguably a bigger mess than this current one. He took by far the most underfunded program in the Big XII and turned them into competitors for titles in nearly every sport and won five team national championships. The Drayton McLane referenced above owned the Astros when McCaw was hired. It was McCaw that convinced Uncle Drayton to use the profits from the sale of the Astros to fund an incredible new football stadium along the Brazos River. His tenure had unquestioned success on the field and in the significant development of the athletic department. No one in Texas questions that aspect of his Baylor experience. The other concerns in this thread are certainly fair to debate. But trying to discount his work in Waco is foolish.

What occurred over the past few years in Waco with the football program grows more disturbing every day. I knew Coach Briles for years and frankly what I read now shocks me. I had heard more whispers about allegations around the mens hoops program than I ever did about football. I agree that Coach Briles is likely done coaching at the FBS level. Frankly I could never see him coaching outside of the State of Texas where he is an institution among high school coaches. But it wouldn't shock me to see him wind up coaching in the Southland in a couple of years.
User avatar
By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#526453
Sly Fox wrote:Being legally cleared is not the same as being tarnished by proximity. Let me echo that everyone I talk to in Waco tells me they believe McCaw was a good man who was unaware of what was occurring behind his back. You can certainly fault him for lack of appropriate oversight. But right now he has not been directly implicated in any cover-up. The text message in the DMN story can be interpreted many different ways. But just knowing how the system works, I am inclined to follow Ri's logic.

Those looking to diminish what occurred at Baylor under McCaw are uninformed. Setting aside the football mess, he took over the BU Athletic Department in the wake of what was arguably a bigger mess than this current one. He took by far the most underfunded program in the Big XII and turned them into competitors for titles in nearly every sport and won five team national championships. The Drayton McLane referenced above owned the Astros when McCaw was hired. It was McCaw that convinced Uncle Drayton to use the profits from the sale of the Astros to fund an incredible new football stadium along the Brazos River. His tenure had unquestioned success on the field and in the significant development of the athletic department. No one in Texas questions that aspect of his Baylor experience. The other concerns in this thread are certainly fair to debate. But trying to discount his work in Waco is foolish.

What occurred over the past few years in Waco with the football program grows more disturbing every day. I knew Coach Briles for years and frankly what I read now shocks me. I had heard more whispers about allegations around the mens hoops program than I ever did about football. I agree that Coach Briles is likely done coaching at the FBS level. Frankly I could never see him coaching outside of the State of Texas where he is an institution among high school coaches. But it wouldn't shock me to see him wind up coaching in the Southland in a couple of years.
That's kinda sorta a HUGE part of what an AD is supposed to do
By KingsKId
Posts
#526454
Incomprehensible to me that some could say "a good man who was unaware of what was going on". This is a culture not an isolated incident. Clearly Art Briles didn't fear for his job, his direct superior I guess posed no threat to this culture. Best case scenario, he may be a good man but if he didn't know what was going on he was incompetent in his role. Either way, shouldn't be our AD.
User avatar
By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#526461
KingsKId wrote:Incomprehensible to me that some could say "a good man who was unaware of what was going on". This is a culture not an isolated incident. Clearly Art Briles didn't fear for his job, his direct superior I guess posed no threat to this culture. Best case scenario, he may be a good man but if he didn't know what was going on he was incompetent in his role. Either way, shouldn't be our AD.
This is also a good point

When Briles is coaching at LU in 2018 we can asume they've learned their lesson
User avatar
By Sly Fox
Registration Days Posts
#526469
The lack of oversight is the only legitimate crack on McCaw at Baylor at this point. I think that is fair for serious discussion.

I do think it is also fair to suggest that Coach Briles felt untouchable in Waco. With all due respect, the head football coach at a major university in Texas who is winning at the highest levels has more power than an AD or university president. Say what you will about it being a sad commentary on higher education. But it's the hard truth. UT tried to snatch him away from BU when they hired Strong and again this past year before the allegations went public. That only enboldened him more that he was above the law. Coach Briles owned every part of Waco not in the possession of BU fans Chip & Joanna. So even the Gaines were probably not immune to his influence.
By Footballfan
Posts
#526473
What about Ian's lack of judgment and obligation to protect all students and student athletes? Ian McCaw lawyers response yesterday fell very short, in my opinion. To state that in 2012, Baylor did not have a Title IX office and had not trained its staff on how handle sexual assualt is a very poor excuse. As a former college coach, teacher, and administrator, I question more than his lack of oversight, but I admit I do not have all the facts. How many of thr Baylor football players that had "issues" were released from their scholarships? Whether you play football at a university in Texas or Virginia - it's a privilege - not a right.

It seems Mr. McCaw has many great qualities and lives his life as a strong Christian, but that doesn't mean he didn't make serious mistakes at Baylor. It was stated he resigned from Baylor, but now it is evident if he did not resign, he would have been fired. It just seems the complete story has not been told. Sly, you even admitted that you thought you knew Art Briles but was shocked by the recent facts being released. I just hope, pray, and trust that Jerry Faldwell Jr. and Liberty did their due diligence and had all the facts before they made this hire.
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By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#526474
Footballfan wrote:What about Ian's lack of judgment and obligation to protect all students and student athletes? Ian McCaw lawyers response yesterday fell very short, in my opinion. To state that in 2012, Baylor did not have a Title IX office and had not trained its staff on how handle sexual assualt is a very poor excuse. As a former college coach, teacher, and administrator, I question more than his lack of oversight, but I admit I do not have all the facts. How many of thr Baylor football players that had "issues" were released from their scholarships? Whether you play football at a university in Texas or Virginia - it's a privilege - not a right.

It seems Mr. McCaw has many great qualities and lives his life as a strong Christian, but that doesn't mean he didn't make serious mistakes at Baylor. It was stated he resigned from Baylor, but now it is evident if he did not resign, he would have been fired. It just seems the complete story has not been told. Sly, you even admitted that you thought you knew Art Briles but was shocked by the recent facts being released. I just hope, pray, and trust that Jerry Faldwell Jr. and Liberty did their due diligence and had all the facts before they made this hire.
JR said in the 10 days or so from the 'surprising' resignation of Barber to the hiring of McCaw (with Thanksgiving thrown in) that they did an exhaustive background check on McCaw and turned up nothing. Further, what they did turn up would show he did nothing wrong. So if you believe that you have to believe they knew about this text
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By flameshaw
Registration Days Posts
#526479
NO ONE here, knows the full story on BU. Based on the history of the university in general and Jr's hires specifically, I feel it is presumptuous at best, to question his decision to hire McCaw.
The last time I checked, one is presumed innocent until proven guilty. I know that isn't always the case here, but at the minimum, there are many conflicting stories/"facts" coming out of Waco. One thing is obvious, they made a very poor decision in hiring their Title IX compliance officer. A person with zero experience with Title IX and a former guvmint employee to boot.
I don't think McCaw can be held totally blameless for the problems at BU. I will be very disappointed if it is deemed that he was knee-deep in the cover up and knew much more about the problems than we know about now. Until then, I will remain a wait-and-see interested, observer.
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By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#526481
flameshaw wrote:NO ONE here, knows the full story on BU. Based on the history of the university in general and Jr's hires specifically, I feel it is presumptuous at best, to question his decision to hire McCaw.
The last time I checked, one is presumed innocent until proven guilty. I know that isn't always the case here, but at the minimum, there are many conflicting stories/"facts" coming out of Waco. One thing is obvious, they made a very poor decision in hiring their Title IX compliance officer. A person with zero experience with Title IX and a former guvmint employee to boot.
I don't think McCaw can be held totally blameless for the problems at BU. I will be very disappointed if it is deemed that he was knee-deep in the cover up and knew much more about the problems than we know about now. Until then, I will remain a wait-and-see interested, observer.
Which is a great argument as to what LU should have done before hiring him. I think you spelled it out pretty well
By KingsKId
Posts
#526483
It is accurate to say that "at this point no one knows the complete story about BU" including JF. If JF is saying he was surprised by "Jeff Barbers surprise resignation", he is a bold face liar. JB was terminated, everybody in the athletic department knows it and those that are close to him have first hand knowledge and have openly shared it. For me personally, this is a lot less about McCaw and much more about JF's insatiable desire for publicity and control. Timing is everything, there was no rush to grab McCaw, no other school in America was going to hire him. He was and still is very toxic. Couple that with the fact that JF just accepted the position as Trump's top adviser on higher education and an LU spokesperson said last week that one of JF's primary goals is to repeal Title IX reporting rules on campuses. If it walks like a duck, sounds like a duck....
User avatar
By flameshaw
Registration Days Posts
#526485
KingsKId wrote:It is accurate to say that "at this point no one knows the complete story about BU" including JF. If JF is saying he was surprised by "Jeff Barbers surprise resignation", he is a bold face liar. JB was terminated, everybody in the athletic department knows it and those that are close to him have first hand knowledge and have openly shared it. For me personally, this is a lot less about McCaw and much more about JF's insatiable desire for publicity and control. Timing is everything, there was no rush to grab McCaw, no other school in America was going to hire him. He was and still is very toxic. Couple that with the fact that JF just accepted the position as Trump's top adviser on higher education and an LU spokesperson said last week that one of JF's primary goals is to repeal Title IX reporting rules on campuses. If it walks like a duck, sounds like a duck....
If it walks like a troll and sounds like a troll.............................. :)
User avatar
By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#526494
flameshaw wrote:
KingsKId wrote:It is accurate to say that "at this point no one knows the complete story about BU" including JF. If JF is saying he was surprised by "Jeff Barbers surprise resignation", he is a bold face liar. JB was terminated, everybody in the athletic department knows it and those that are close to him have first hand knowledge and have openly shared it. For me personally, this is a lot less about McCaw and much more about JF's insatiable desire for publicity and control. Timing is everything, there was no rush to grab McCaw, no other school in America was going to hire him. He was and still is very toxic. Couple that with the fact that JF just accepted the position as Trump's top adviser on higher education and an LU spokesperson said last week that one of JF's primary goals is to repeal Title IX reporting rules on campuses. If it walks like a duck, sounds like a duck....
If it walks like a troll and sounds like a troll.............................. :)
He makes good points. Far from being a Troll
User avatar
By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#526507
BuryYourDuke wrote:Repealing the ridiculous and unconstitutional overreaches of Title IX's expansions would be fantastic. It is destroying the lives of young men all over the country while removing due process.
I'm probably the biggest Title IX supporter on the board. It was and is an absolutely vital Law. However like most Federal Mandates it has gone too far. What it is doing now is certainly not what it was originally intended to do.
I don't have faith in JR spearheading any effort to reform it
User avatar
By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#526523
Footballfan wrote:While it's just this one reporters opinion, it sums up many of the points that are trying to be made in this thread about Ian McCaw's judgement, responsibility, and culpability while at Baylor.

http://www.journalnow.com/sports/column ... 10d2d.html
Interesting quotes from the article:
He was paid big bucks to shepherd a multimillion-dollar operation, to be aware of what’s going on with Baylor sports. And this thing was so big that there was no way he didn’t know unless he allowed football to operate from the $300-million stadium it built as if it were in an off-campus university-sanctioned criminal playground. McCaw was either incompetent, blissfully ignorant or a co-conspirator in hiding criminal behavior

Instead he landed as the athletic director at Liberty University, the second-largest Baptist school in all the land. That indicates that Baptist schools either have a bond that transcends scandal, Liberty didn’t properly vet McCaw or that Baylor and/or McCaw failed to provide enough information such as what surfaced in those text messages. The likely answer is a combination of each of those scenarios.
By walksports
Posts
#526591
Current Baylor AD Rhoades says nothing in the recent texts surprised them or the NCAA in a CoachingSearch.com story posted yesterday.

“I don’t think there’s anything written in the legal reply or the answer to the lawsuit that surprised the NCAA. We worked with them hand in hand and have been completely transparent,” Rhoades said. “When it comes out for the first time in the public and the follow-up stories, it certainly goes down a negative path. But we’ve been working with the NCAA and been extremely transparent.

“There might not be a calm on the outside, but here within the athletic department, there’s a calm. We’re going to go through every step and process and get to the finish line.”


http://coachingsearch.com/article?a=Mac ... e-a-change

You have to think that as long as nothing comes out over time that IM didn't share with Liberty, it will be keep moving forward.
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