A Sea Of Red

We had this discussion on the old board about whether or not the Debate Team should be in one of the sport threads. I think its a real stretch but I will follow suit here:

Cut, Thrust and Christ
Why evangelicals are mastering the art of college debate


Word Power: Liberty’s Bender wants to become a lawyer and work toward making abortion illegal

By Susannah Meadows
Newsweek

Feb. 6, 2006 issue - When you believe the end of the world is coming, you learn to talk fast. On a Friday afternoon the debate team from Liberty University, Jerry Falwell's fundamentalist Baptist college, is madly rehearsing for the tournament about to begin. This year's topic: should the United States increase diplomatic and economic pressure on China. They may just be practicing, but you wouldn't know it from the menacing mosquito-buzz rising as all 20 debaters read their speeches at once, as fast as they can. Policy debate on the college level has become a rapid-fire verbal assault, an arguments-per-minute game, that sounds more like the guy at the end of the car commercial than an eloquent Oxford intellectual. There is tension and more than a little spittle in the air. The Liberty team is currently ranked No. 1 in the country, above Harvard (14th) and all the other big names. But for the evangelicals, there's a lot more at stake than a trophy. Falwell and the religious right figure that if they can raise a generation that knows how to argue, they can stem the tide of sin in the country. Seventy-five percent of Liberty's debaters go on to be lawyers with an eye toward transforming society. "I think I can make an impact in the field of law on abortion and gay rights, to get back to Americans' godly heritage," says freshman debater Cole Bender.

Debaters are the new missionaries, having realized they can save a lot more souls from a seat at the top—perhaps even on the highest court in the land. "Evangelicals have always wanted to persuade people to the faith," says John Green, a senior fellow at the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life. "The new thing is that evangelicals want to be more involved in the world now. Conservative Christian leaders would like to have a cadre of conservative Christian attorneys, who then become judges, politicians and political appointees." At Patrick Henry College, an evangelical school outside Washington, D.C.—where 30 percent of the student body engages in some form of debate—the president is so committed to producing leaders that he's also the moot-court coach. Baptist Cedarville University in Ohio just tripled its budget for debate scholarships. Falwell's school, in Lynchburg, Va., pours a half million dollars into the debate program every year, with the goal of eventually flooding the system with "thousands" of conservative Christian lawyers. "We are training debaters who can perform assault ministry, meaning becoming the conscience of the culture," says Falwell, who is also hoping the team will elevate the humble academic reputation of Liberty itself. "So while we have the preaching of the Gospel on the one side—certainly a priority—we have the confronting of the culture on moral default on the other side."

The Liberty squad, which can spend 40 hours on debate prep the week of a tournament, is by far the most successful of the evangelical debaters. And among their secular opposition, they're widely respected—notwithstanding the times they've quoted dubious sources, such as PatRobertson.com. But part of the reason Liberty is at the top is that it hits as many tournaments as it can, racking up the points that determine national rankings. While the powerhouses like Harvard and Northwestern concentrate on nabbing the prestigious varsity titles, Liberty is competitive at all three levels—varsity, JV and novice. "They're tough. [But] we're not afraid to debate Liberty," says Harvard coach Dallas Perkins Jr., whose varsity team was beaten by Falwell's last month.

Karl Rove was impressed enough by the squad that he tapped Liberty coach Brett O'Donnell to prep George W. Bush for all three presidential debates in 2004. O'Donnell briefed the president on his nonverbal tics. "They didn't listen to me until after the debacle," says O'Donnell, of Bush's awkward first debate performance. O'Donnell, who recently started his own consulting business, has already been contacted by two potential Republican candidates about the 2008 race. If all goes well, maybe he'll get some business down the road from some ex-students.
© 2006 Newsweek, Inc.

lets point out the bias here- its only a WEE obvious.

Falwell's fundamentalist Baptist college (slam)
madly rehearsing ('cause we're all insane)
menacing mosquito-buzz (now we're also dangerous insects)
rapid-fire verbal assault (very very dangerous)
more like the guy at the end of the car commercial than an eloquent Oxford intellectual (now we're also blue collar trash)
stem the tide of sin (just a little sarcasm)
humble academic reputation of Liberty itself (stupid AND blue collar)
dubious sources (we make crap up)
reason Liberty is at the top is that it hits as many tournaments as it can (its not good to be competetive)
powerhouses like Harvard and Northwestern concentrate on nabbing the prestigious varsity titles (white collar + liberal= GOOD)

I hate Newsweek

Only in the FireHouse, oops, FLAMFANS will you find such concise, yet thorough analysis of debate. Well done, Sly and Medic.

Sly Fox wrote:We had this discussion on the old board about whether or not the Debate Team should be in one of the sport threads. I think its a real stretch but I will follow suit here:

Cut, Thrust and Christ
Why evangelicals are mastering the art of college debate


Word Power: Liberty’s Bender wants to become a lawyer and work toward making abortion illegal

By Susannah Meadows
Newsweek

Feb. 6, 2006 issue - When you believe the end of the world is coming, you learn to talk fast. On a Friday afternoon the debate team from Liberty University, Jerry Falwell's fundamentalist Baptist college, is madly rehearsing for the tournament about to begin. This year's topic: should the United States increase diplomatic and economic pressure on China. They may just be practicing, but you wouldn't know it from the menacing mosquito-buzz rising as all 20 debaters read their speeches at once, as fast as they can. Policy debate on the college level has become a rapid-fire verbal assault, an arguments-per-minute game, that sounds more like the guy at the end of the car commercial than an eloquent Oxford intellectual. There is tension and more than a little spittle in the air. The Liberty team is currently ranked No. 1 in the country, above Harvard (14th) and all the other big names. But for the evangelicals, there's a lot more at stake than a trophy. Falwell and the religious right figure that if they can raise a generation that knows how to argue, they can stem the tide of sin in the country. Seventy-five percent of Liberty's debaters go on to be lawyers with an eye toward transforming society. "I think I can make an impact in the field of law on abortion and gay rights, to get back to Americans' godly heritage," says freshman debater Cole Bender.

Debaters are the new missionaries, having realized they can save a lot more souls from a seat at the top—perhaps even on the highest court in the land. "Evangelicals have always wanted to persuade people to the faith," says John Green, a senior fellow at the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life. "The new thing is that evangelicals want to be more involved in the world now. Conservative Christian leaders would like to have a cadre of conservative Christian attorneys, who then become judges, politicians and political appointees." At Patrick Henry College, an evangelical school outside Washington, D.C.—where 30 percent of the student body engages in some form of debate—the president is so committed to producing leaders that he's also the moot-court coach. Baptist Cedarville University in Ohio just tripled its budget for debate scholarships. Falwell's school, in Lynchburg, Va., pours a half million dollars into the debate program every year, with the goal of eventually flooding the system with "thousands" of conservative Christian lawyers. "We are training debaters who can perform assault ministry, meaning becoming the conscience of the culture," says Falwell, who is also hoping the team will elevate the humble academic reputation of Liberty itself. "So while we have the preaching of the Gospel on the one side—certainly a priority—we have the confronting of the culture on moral default on the other side."

The Liberty squad, which can spend 40 hours on debate prep the week of a tournament, is by far the most successful of the evangelical debaters. And among their secular opposition, they're widely respected—notwithstanding the times they've quoted dubious sources, such as PatRobertson.com. But part of the reason Liberty is at the top is that it hits as many tournaments as it can, racking up the points that determine national rankings. While the powerhouses like Harvard and Northwestern concentrate on nabbing the prestigious varsity titles, Liberty is competitive at all three levels—varsity, JV and novice. "They're tough. [But] we're not afraid to debate Liberty," says Harvard coach Dallas Perkins Jr., whose varsity team was beaten by Falwell's last month.

Karl Rove was impressed enough by the squad that he tapped Liberty coach Brett O'Donnell to prep George W. Bush for all three presidential debates in 2004. O'Donnell briefed the president on his nonverbal tics. "They didn't listen to me until after the debacle," says O'Donnell, of Bush's awkward first debate performance. O'Donnell, who recently started his own consulting business, has already been contacted by two potential Republican candidates about the 2008 race. If all goes well, maybe he'll get some business down the road from some ex-students.
© 2006 Newsweek, Inc.

she must of got her butt whooped by our supernerds when she was in college....i'm assuming shes a fat cow

Will anyone on this board be watching the POTUS speak tonight? The rebuttal will be given by Democratic Govenor from Virginia, Gov. Tim Kaine.
I'm into this stuff and being that we're LU'rs I figure there may be some who'd be interested in the topic....

I'm not a big fan of State of the Union addresses. They tend to be long rhetoric and short on substance. And if we had to have a standing ovation after every other sentence in life, nothing would ever get done.

watched portions of it in between the little guy getting ready for bed. Nothing new here, no surprises.

Yeah... no "Axis of Evil" moments this time...

Noticed Mrs. Clinton had some great faces at Mr. Bush...and the Dems stood to cheer when Bush said "You didn't pass my recommendation from last year"... That was funny...

The democratic response was so-so... Our govenor didn't do badly... he didn't make a splash either... but he put a calm face on the Democratic party...

overall things were civil...and boring.

Rules for State of the Union Addresses:

1. Stand-up and clap when the President is announced, enters, leaves, and addresses the congress
2. Stand-up and clap when he mentions supporting the military
3. Stand-up and clap when he says something you and/or your party is in favor of.
4. If you lose focus, just stand up and clap when the people around you do.

Liberty University Makes Debate History By Winning All Three National Policy Debate Rankings Championships

April 17, 2006

Liberty Debate capped off their 25th season of competition by making debate history. Liberty became the first debate team to win all three national rankings championships (the American Debate Association, the Cross Examination Debate Association, and the National Debate Tournament) in the same season. Liberty won the ADA title at the ADA Championship tournament held in early March at the University of Michigan. Liberty won the National Debate Tournament rankings after the conclusion of the National Debate Tournament at Northwestern University. Liberty completed the sweep and held off a late charge by the University of Kansas in Dallas, Texas.

Final NDT Rankings

Liberty University 566
Kansas (Univ. of) 533
Dartmouth 504
Harvard 495
Wayne State U. 494
Missouri-Kansas City 493
Emory 488
Rochester 486
Whitman College 483
Binghamton 477
Missouri State 472
U.S. Military Academy 465
Mary Washington 454
Michigan State Univ. 453
California 429
Oklahoma 426
Northwestern 412
Wake Forest 410
Cal Poly 405
Vermont 399
Central Oklahoma U. 394
Cornell University 391
Vanderbilt 373
Emporia State U. 363
Georgia 360

Final CEDA Rankings

N1 Liberty E 25 3 32 10 32 10 37 10 33 8 27 8 186 49
N2 Kansas MA 30 8 31 10 34 6 25 8 28 0 24 1 172 33
N3 Dartmouth E 27 1 26 4 24 1 21 5 22 8 46 4 166 23
N4 UMKC MA 22 1 26 8 26 8 26 8 33 10 26 5 159 40
N5 Whitman NW 24 5 27 8 30 8 36 0 21 3 18 3 156 27
N6 Army E 21 1 23 3 17 3 32 8 31 8 27 6 151 29
N7 Harvard E 20 0 40 5 22 5 18 1 26 5 25 5 151 21
N8 Missouri State MA 22 3 23 1 32 0 20 1 23 6 29 3 149 14
N9 Wayne State EC 21 3 20 8 29 8 24 8 26 4 27 5 147 36
N10 Rochester E 23 6 24 10 26 3 19 4 29 6 26 6 147 35
11 Emory SE 26 1 24 5 22 8 23 1 25 6 26 0 146 21
12 Binghamton E 25 6 20 6 26 10 26 3 25 6 20 3 142 34
13 Mary Washington E 20 6 27 6 24 4 28 6 18 1 17 5 134 28
14 Michigan State EC 24 5 21 4 23 0 19 5 18 3 21 5 126 22
15 Northwestern NC 20 3 26 6 20 0 22 3 18 0 18 3 124 15
16 Cal Poly SLO W 21 8 16 4 16 2 20 8 25 10 23 8 121 40
17 Oklahoma MA 21 0 22 6 17 2 17 1 24 5 19 5 120 19
18 California W 22 5 25 4 18 3 19 1 18 5 18 0 120 18
19 Central Oklahoma MA 21 0 17 5 18 6 13 1 27 6 19 1 115 19
20 Vermont E 21 6 22 5 13 0 17 0 19 1 23 5 115 17
21 Wake Forest SE 18 4 16 0 18 0 23 1 19 3 19 1 113 9
22 Cornell E 26 8 20 2 15 0 14 2 19 1 15 5 109 18
23 Emporia State MA 15 3 19 2 15 0 22 3 16 0 21 5 108 13
24 Vanderbilt SEC 18 5 19 8 17 5 18 5 15 5 15 4 102 32
25 Georgia SE 11 0 20 6 18 3 21 6 21 3 11 0 102 18

Final ADA Rankings

Liberty 176.5 189.5 108 474 1
Wayne State 90 108 174 372 2
Mary Washington 6 163 126 295 3
Clarion 58 129.5 20 207.5 4
John Carroll 117 18 55 190 5
George Mason 82.5 80 14 176.5 6
Binghamton 67 70 21 158 7
Pittsburgh 0 57.5 90 147.5 8
Catholic 0 54 88 142 9
Army (West Point) 55 37 30 122 10

no doubt some idiot will write in to the fishwrap claiming we are lying and/or don't compete against "real" schools, or some other pathetic attempt to write this one off, but CONGRATS to Coach O'Donnell and the kids who truly made history here.

well, kinda. The US anyway. (thought "some people" would like the Queen ref )

Coach and his "evil conservative minions"

bump for qkslvrsrfrboy

this is the story of me getting owned by one of my buddies....he was on the debate team for a college in chicago...i stated , oh well liberty, the school i went to, is ranked #1 in the nation(this is really really all i know or care to know about our debate team)...he laughed...then responded with this article..

http://scienceblogs.com/dispatches/2006 ... take_3.php

i dont' know what to say....are we really teh best just because we debate more?? is this true?

once again, i'm unenlighted as to any debate team stats...

discuss

Not reading the article, I was under the impression that we were ranked #1 so much because of our JV team performance. Other schools ignore them and we focus on them which gives us the points. But your friend most likely is jealous because his team is obviously not #1.

Wow, yea, we're bragging about something that's completely flawed. That's like giving a high school team a state title because their JV team is good.

It's only a matter of time before the big boys try to blackball our debate team a la VHSL and LCA.

When I played Midget football there was an A team for the older kids and a B team for the younger kids on each team. The quarters were divided in half and each team played a half of the quarter. My last year on the B team we were by far the best B team in the league. Meanwhile, our A team was pathetic. At the end of the year the A team had a 2 foot tall trophy with the rest of us and the rest of the league had jack. I bet they weren't complaining.

First...LU was still winning debate titles way back when I attended in 97,98, etc. At that time they didn't go to as many events as the some of the other schools, and they were still winning.

Second, all the schools should know how the system works...they need to bring their JV teams up to our level...

Besides, the article is misleading, our varsity team DID beat Harvard's varsity team last year.

We just dominate in debate

regardless....my new statement will be "we debate more than anyone else" or "we are #1 in point rankings" or "we have more good debaters than you" or "why are we actually talking about the debate team?" instead of "we are the best"

RubberMallet wrote: "we are #1 in point rankings"

That's all you need. The rankings are based on the entire team. There's nothing wrong with that system. It makes sense. Every other school is like the '03 Colts. Sure they had the best offense. But when your defense sucks you're not going to win championships.

LUconn wrote:

RubberMallet wrote: "we are #1 in point rankings"

That's all you need. The rankings are based on the entire team. There's nothing wrong with that system. It makes sense. Every other school is like the '03 Colts. Sure they had the best offense. But when your defense sucks you're not going to win championships.

thats a terrible analogy

no it's not. It shows you what happens when only half of your team is good. You lose.

So the AAA schools that are decent in varsity football but have good JV and freshman teams should be state champs?

If it's in some sort of system where the JV team counts.